Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Guest DP1

Runway as a Fix.

Recommended Posts

Guest DP1

I have hunted about in the 737 manual but haven't found what I'm looking for.I want to use the destination runway as a Fix in the FMC Fix page. I have tried to enter the runway direct into the Fix boxes and line select the rwy but have met with failures. Using the runway as a fix is more accurate than using nearby nav aids etc. Will the 737 FMC perform this function or should I do something else?David

Share this post


Link to post

David,I don't think the real thing can do this, so I wouldn't expect the PMDG NG to do it either. If I'm wrong I'm sure Brad or any of the other rw drivers will slap my fingers! :-) You might use the ILS for a fix though. Should be accurate enough. Cheers,


Mats Johansson
PMDG Flight Test Dept
Boeing777_Banner_BetaTeam.jpg

| Asus Z270-A | Intel i5-7600K @ 4.8 GHz OC/H2O | nVidia Geforce GTX 1070 8GB OC/O2|

Share this post


Link to post
Guest glenb

The manual says on page 8

Share this post


Link to post
Guest glenb

Related to this is what I see as helpful for the route of flight. If your route is in the opposite direction of the takeoff runway LNAV cannot be used at the start. If the runway can be entered as a waypoint it could be a Place Bearing/Distance Waypoint at a distance from the runway as the first fix to allow time to climb to a safe altitude before turning on the route. There are other ways of doing that but it would be helpful to use the runway.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest tmetzinger

I believe the runways are in the database, but they are NOT usable as fixes the way intersections/vors/ndbs/waypoints are.

Share this post


Link to post

As mentioned, there seems to be no way to enter a specific runway directly on the FIX or LEGS pages, ex as KPHX25L. However there are some workarounds, depending on your needs... 1. There seems to be an identyfier/waypoint in the database for each runway(according to FSNavigator). As an example, for KPHX 25L the identyfier is R0160 and this can be used as a waypoint.2. You can enter the airport ICAO code and use it as a waypoint/reference point (the aerodrome's reference point)3. As mentioned you can literally define any custom waypoint where you like as a PBD waypoint or PB/PB waypoint, and use any intsc/vor/ndb/airport/ as reference point.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest glenb

Thanks Per ArildAs sometimes happens when one question is answered two others come up. I found in the wpNavFIX.txt file the fix R0160 and it is for runway 25L at KPHX and by searching for the latitude and longitude I found the fix R0162 for runway 26. Without using FSNaivgator how do you find the fix id for the runways? I know this is getting a bit detailed but this stuff is interesting (well it is for an old database guy).

Share this post


Link to post

I have hunted about in the 737 manual but haven't found what I'm looking for.I want to use the destination runway as a Fix in the FMC Fix page. I have tried to enter the runway direct into the Fix boxes and line select the rwy but have met with failures. Using the runway as a fix is more accurate than using nearby nav aids etc. Will the 737 FMC perform this function or should I do something else?DavidDavid,Pilots in the real world use SIDs, airways or fixes, and STARs to get them to their destination. Of course, some of the NAVDATAs don't list SIDs and STARs, such as Birmingham International or KBHM. In this cases, I enter some other fix I can get from the charts. SIDs are published procedures to get you from the departing runway to the start of the airways. When you arrive near the destination, STARs are used to get you from the airway to a waypoint called a IAF or Initial Approach Fix. At this point, you get radar vectors or you can get the IAF procedures from charts. At KBHM, I entercept McDen at 2200, at which point the Localizer and glide slope is captured. Hope this helps.Ken.

Share this post


Link to post

Glen,In fact I don't know. I was merely describing the availability in the FMC. I may be wrong, but I don't think these are published fixes. Personally I 've never had the need for using the rwy as a fix. As Ken mentioned above there are many other published intsc/vor/ndb in the charts that will be sufficient to set up a proper procedure for departure or approach(if not published procedures), or as a reference for creating all sorts of custom fixes. These can also be very handy to meet any ATC instructions.On approach, you may also use RWY EXT function in the arrival pages. You can use this to set up a fix at a given distance on the extended centerline of your arr rwy. As an ex, select a rwy without procedure, enter 10NM in the RWY EXT (LSK3R I think). Then you will be lined up for final approach set up for a proper descend profile(if you are not using any other radio guidance). But I have rarely used this...

Share this post


Link to post
Guest DP1

Thanks everyone for your input.I think the runway extend feature will do what I want to do.David

Share this post


Link to post
Guest GeoffC

I don't think this has been suggested so here goes. If I was arriving at Manchester ( EGCC ) on 24R I would/could put IMM (I-MM on the chart which is the localiser identifier)in the fix page and then put the rad/distance info in to make a nice circle with a line extending from the runway.This is how I use fixes to give a nice visual on the ND, which is also useful for DME ARC arrivals.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest glenb

GeoffI never thought of using a localizer as a fix but it works. Interesting the KPHX rwn 8 loc is ISYQ and that can be used as a fix but rwn 26 ICWJ could not. Checking the wpNavAID.txt for ICWJ came up empty but CWJ was the correct fix id for that loc. I modify the file to ICWJ with an insert

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Zapper

Gents,Sorry I am late to this thread.. pretty busy.I have never considered using the runway as a fix and will try and remember to give it a shot when I fly next.However we often use the RWY EXT feature when we will not be flying a STAR or a specific instrument approach. We do this mainly for visual circuits or circling and will create a point about 3 miles short of the threshold and that is a good aiming point to be at 1000'.To be honest I can't imagine a real world scenario where we would want to use the rwy as a fix as at the speeds we travel the time difference between using the rwy or the aerodrome reference point or perhaps a close by VOR etc is not significant.Certainly you can use a LOC as a fix.ATB,

Share this post


Link to post
Guest DP1

The reason I wanted to use the rwy as a Fix (on the Fix page) was so I could extend a line on the same heading as the rwy. That way there would be a green circle at my chosen distance that would be a good aiming point for my chosen altitude (to quote the previous post " a point about 3 miles short of the threshold and that is a good aiming point to be at 1000'" or whatever distance floats my boat) and I would have a runway extension for a visual reference as well. Two birds with one stone.By the way in another sim aircraft just released this can easily be done and that's where I got the idea. Brad what you described is what I want to do only I wanted to do it from the Fix page but the Rwy Ext feature is ok and should easily accomplish what I want to do. Thanks to all againDavid

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Zapper

Hi Ryan,Yes you can put a LOC or LLZ in as a fix in the NG as they are part of the permamenet database within the FMC.ATB,

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
  • Donation Goals

    AVSIM's 2020 Fundraising Goal

    Donate to our annual general fundraising goal. This donation keeps our doors open and providing you service 24 x 7 x 365. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. We reset this goal every new year for the following year's goal.


    2%
    $565.00 of $25,000.00 Donate Now
×
×
  • Create New...