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(Another) FMC Flight Plan Question

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Guys, I need a bit of help. Can't see this has been asked before.I'm going to learn this FMC if it (or the wife) kills me!I'm a bit stuck on loading the, what do you call them, 'routes' between waypoints. I can load a series of waypoints easily in the FMC, down the right-hand side. However, I'm struggling a bit with the data loaded on the left whereby you can pick an airway (?) between waypoints. Does that make sense?I've looked at the 'MAP' in FS when creating a route, and there's thin lines all over the place, most with designators like K345 etc. However, when I enter this into the FMC on the left as a route between, say, two VOR's I constantly get the message NOT IN DATABASE.So, I guess my question is, how do I recognise looking at MAP view what lines/names are valid for entering into the FMC?I'm assuming there must be a certain format an airway (is that what you call a route between two waypoints?) must have to be loaded into the FMC? If so, what should this look like so I can find them on MAP view?Appreciate any help. I'm wanting to be relatively FMC-savvy before the 747 arrives late 2010... ; )CheersTimNZWN

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Airways... very helpful aren't they?That is what they are airways... Highways in the sky!Buuuut GPS flying would be even better ;) In the future it will come.Boaz...

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Hi Tim,On the Route page 2, enter the first waypoint where you join the airway. Then on the left side enter the airway. Then on the right side enter the last waypoint in the airway. Hope that makes sense.Consider this FOC (Flight Operations Center)flight plan:KPHL to KCLEAPT-KPHL/DCT-MXE/DCT-KUPPS/V12-HAR/V210-VOLAN/DCT PUDSE/(I24R-DJB)DCT=directThe sequence would be right side MXE, right side KUPPS,left side v12, right side HAR, left side V210,right side volan,right side pudse...See if you can enter this one and find the airways on the map. There will be a short quiz in the morning. LOL. :)Bob...

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Thanks Bob, I'll give that a go.I'm presuming from your example I'll be able to identify what to look for on the map in the future.CheersTim

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No need for maps. Have a look at this site;www.rfinder.asalink.net/freejust enter the ICAO code for the departure and destination airports and hit "Enter". You can now print out all the waypoints. At the bottom of the page you will see a reduced list of waypoints. Some have DCT (direct to ) next to them and others have the airways identifier. Simply go to the RTE page on the FMC and then "next page" to see the stored route. If it says in your plan UL789 to ROSTO for example then on the left hand side of ROSTO type in UL789 and then LSK. It should now appear on the left and fill in all the intermediate fixes for you on the "LEGS" page.If you are using the 600/700 NG you will frequently get the "not in database" error message because it it simply is not there. The 800/900 has far fewer of those erors. You could hang on to the 6/700 and update the AIRAC Cyle but it is tricky by all accounts.Gerry

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Tim,Gary is right that Route Finder will provide the airways and the beginning and end points. I went for the subscription ($20 ?) which will export a route into PMDG format to be loaded into the FMC without all the typing. You just must be sure it goes in the correct directory.

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Hello Tim, A few things to keep in mind concerning a route, The first entry is always a DIRECT TO wpt Airways are leg segments comprised of many such wpts, think of them like air highways along a defined path in the sky. After you enter your TO point in the TO line you can then enter an airway relitive to your position. Say you enter J135, the FMC will then prompt you for an ENDING POINT along with segment. In other words you can choose how long you intend on staying on this highway. There are many ways to link such segments and TO wpts to get to where you are going. To modify your inputted route you will always use the LEGS PAGE. On the legs page you most certainly will see Route Discontinuities when manually building a route, basically these are points that do not fit with a COMMON wpt that the FMC joins so you must connect the segements manually. Having charts comes in very handy here or simply knowing some wpts along you path. An example of mine is the arrivial into KLAX rwy 28R SADDE 6 ARR -AVE-DENAY TRANSISTION, here I manually input COVIN between DENAY and SMO otherwise it does not give ample turn to final plus the Route Discontinuity that needs to be closed. A pilot recieves a DISPATCH SHEET, that has weights and routing for the flight, as simmers we tend to be flight dispatchers too! You can obtain some fine dispatch sheets from some of the hard core simmers around here and maybe for a flight you normally do, simply ask someone here.[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]

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I thank you all for the information in this string. It's one of the most helpful and interesting I've read for some while.Cliff

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I've noticed after I upgraded the 600/700 when I installed the 800/900 that I get a PMDG message which says Updating Airac followed by Waypoints, etc - only takes about a minute - is this new only I've never seen it before ?

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Hi Bob.I followed your comments yesterday, and am a bit lost on a few things.Easy one first: when I enter V12 on the left in the FMC, I get 'Invalid Entry', as opposed to Not In Database.Now, I went looking through the Map view for KUPPS, which I could not find. The plan is to go from KUPPS to HAR via V12, correct?So I worked it backwards, found HAR, found V12 and followed it back to find KUPPS, which I assumed would be attached to it as an intersection...(Interestingly, the flight goes from East to West, but V12 joins HAR from the West, seems the wrong way to me!)Sooo, I pick up V12 at HAR, click left repeatedly, pass LOMON, pass POLLS and JUNEY, then V12 becomes J152! What happened to KUPPS????Again, I'm assuming KUPPS would be on the V12 airway, because if it's not, what the routing between KUPPS and V12?Bob, sorry if I'm appearing dopey here, but you explanation was great and I must be missing something fairly straightforward.CheersTimPS: Back to my earlier post, looking at Map view I'm still not sure what thin line and/or 'code' represents a valid airway that can and should be used in the FMC....

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>> Hello Tim,>> A few things to keep in mind concerning a route,>> The first entry is always a DIRECT TO wpt>> Airways are leg segments comprised of many such wpts, think>of them like air highways along a defined path in the sky.>> After you enter your TO point in the TO line you can then>enter an airway relitive to your position. Say you enter J135,>the FMC will then prompt you for an ENDING POINT along with>segment. In other words you can choose how long you intend on>staying on this highway. There are many ways to link such>segments and TO wpts to get to where you are going.>> To modify your inputted route you will always use the LEGS>PAGE. On the legs page you most certainly will see Route>Discontinuities when manually building a route, basically>these are points that do not fit with a COMMON wpt that the>FMC joins so you must connect the segements manually. Having>charts comes in very handy here or simply knowing some wpts>along you path.>> An example of mine is the arrivial into KLAX rwy 28R SADDE 6>ARR -AVE-DENAY TRANSISTION, here I manually input COVIN>between DENAY and SMO otherwise it does not give ample turn to>final plus the Route Discontinuity that needs to be closed.>> A pilot recieves a DISPATCH SHEET, that has weights and>routing for the flight, as simmers we tend to be flight>dispatchers too! You can obtain some fine dispatch sheets from>some of the hard core simmers around here and maybe for a>flight you normally do, simply ask someone here.>>[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]Hi...Just a word of thanks to say that this type of question and answer session on this forum is of tremendous value to many of us who are new, or comparatively new, to the PMDG FMC.I learned a lot from going through Tim Metzinger's tutorial very thoroughly. His progression from fam flight to full blown trip including RON in KATL gives the newcomer a basic understanding of the capabilities of the aircraft itself and the technicalities of the FMC.That said, it is this type of discussion that helps so much where "the rubber meets the road". When one gets away from the tutorial and desires something just a bit different, the details such as given here give more and more insight into how the FMC is really capable of doing things we once thought were not possible.Thanks to those who have taken time to explain the methods and specific actions required.donmac

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Hi Tim and great questions!Look at the airways presented here and follow the route from the Modena VOR (MXE) to the KUPPS intersection. KUPPS is the intersection I chose to join the V12 airway. Heading west from KUPPS to the Harrisburg VOR (HAR)is the V12 segment. From HAR (beginning way point I chose for joining V210) head west on V210 to VOLAN (end way point). http://www.applebasket.com/Web%20fsnavpic.jpgThe entry into the FMC after POS INIT is on the RTE pages. Page 1 is filled in with DEP and DEST airports and takeoff runway. Then go-to rte page 2 and key in MXE. Place MXE on the right side LSK1. Next key in KRUPPS and place on RIGHT side LSK2. Key in V12 and place on LEFT side LS3. Key in V210 and place on LEFT side. Key in VOLAN and place on right side. It should look like this:http://www.applebasket.com/Web%20cdu.jpgAll of the airways (low (V) and high (J))can be used in your flight plan assuming the nav data is current. I commend you for learning to create flight plans from scratch and manually key them in. It comes in handy on VATSIM when a flight plan change is directed by ATC. It is nice to have the confidence to make the changes or enter SID and STAR's on the fly.I hope this helps. Bob....

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Hi Bob,I think I may see the problem....That screen pic is not MSFS Map view, which is what I've been working from.On your screen I can see at least two V12's into HAR.One from BOYER and one from LRP.In FS I'm sure those airways aren't there, but I'll go home tonight and check again.In respect of the FMC, I did the same as your screen pic, but I'll double-check that tonight as well.CheersTimPS: No suggestions please on upgrading to some payware flight-planner system. Management is already pretty snotty about the $$$ I spend on this hobby, she seriously can't see the point in it!

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Tim,The screen is FSNAV. But it is also in the FS9 Map view.http://applebasket.com/Web%20fsmap.jpgThere is a wealth of charts and procedures available free on the web. Go to VATSIM and register, then Pilot resources. Wonderful resource!Bob....

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I recommend FSBUILD 2.0! It creates flights, can write them manually, then calculates trip fuel and xtra fuel for each PMDG or LVD model, it even recreates the flight in FS format, so you can clear it with ATC in flightsim..Boaz.

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Thanks Bob, maybe I'm back to square one.I'll have another look this weekend in Map view, and if I still think I'm onto something I'll try to suss out a screen print here.CheersTim

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When you enter everything into the fmc and you press activate does atc get your flightplan in ifr rules cheers jimmer

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Hi Bob, hopefully you're not bored with this yet.....; )I set up the following flight plan last night, and surprise, surprise, it didn't work. Can you please have a very quick look and tell me what I'm doing wrong. EGLL DIRECT WOD UA1 COWLY UA1 HON UB3 CREWE UB3 WAL UA25 DCS DIRECT EGPKI got as far as entering UA1 when I got the 'Invalid Entry' message. I got a couple of 'Not In Database' but I know what that means so it doesn't concern me.I entered it on the RTE page (2/2) and after it got dirty, I mucked around (very technical!) with the FMC until I saw 'MOD RTE' and though Ah-ha!, there's the problem.But alas, under MOD (modify) I still had the 'Invalid Entry' message...All sad for Tim.This doesn't seem like quantam physics - I must be missing something quite obvious which is the most frustrating of all.I must be doing the basics of FMC correctly, as I can cruise through entering a flight plan with no worries and it works perfectly. It only turns to (delete word)....custard when I try to add routes on the left.I look forward to your comments if you're still about.CheersTim

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Tim,I got home late tonight and gave your route a quick look. The route logic is fine. The good news is that I get the same message when entering UA1. The bad news is I'm not very familiar with GB's airways and restrictions. (i.e. some can only only be flown in one direction etc.) Hopefully one of our European simmers will jump in at look at you airway selection. I will have more time tomorrow to look at. Sorry!:)Bob..

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Thanks Bob. I find it interesting your comment about it being flown in only one direction.With all due respect to FS, I can't imagine it being that....exacting.Anyway, appreciate your comments again. Gives me a glimmer of hope....CheersTim

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Tim and others, I am having identical problems with the 739 FMC. It will not accept some airways (although it will accept others) but it is fine with waypoints.I have downloaded the latest AIRAC cycle from http://www.navdata.at/php/airac/airac.phpand I have run the self-extracting file. It appears to have put a folder called NAVDATA atc:Program FilesMicrosoft GamesFlight Simulator 9FMCWPcontaining text files including the airways file called wpNavRTE.txtIt seems that any airway in the above file is OK but others such as UL613 are not there. Is there any way to get a complete database of airways?

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Eeh, it's a sad old so-and-so who replies to his own posts... :)I think I may have found the solution. It seems that there have been changes to airway designations, and the map view in FS9 is out of date. Perhaps the airways absent from the Navdata file aren't absent at all, but are there under their new names.I just tried planning routes on Routefinder (the free version, so Tim's wife needn't worry!) both within the UK and within Europe, and the airways and waypoints worked like a dream on the 739 FMC.Suddenly I like this hobby again!Delightedly

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Do you find Routefinder a bit unpredictable though ? I've ran the same route a couple of times and its come up with different way points. Another examople, I've done Bristol (EGGD) - Palma (LEPA) and Bristol to both Ibiza and Mahon - you would expect identical routes for 95% of the way but sometimes they are substantially different, especialy the return. Also the flight I did irl to Hong Kong last year, bore no resemblance whatsoever to the one Routefinder came up with.Anyone any comments ?

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