(Another) FMC Flight Plan Question

[Guest allblack]

Guys, I need a bit of help. Can't see this has been asked before.I'm going to learn this FMC if it (or the wife) kills me!I'm a bit stuck on loading the, what do you call them, 'routes' between waypoints. I can load a series of waypoints easily in the FMC, down the right-hand side. However, I'm struggling a bit with the data loaded on the left whereby you can pick an airway (?) between waypoints. Does that make sense?I've looked at the 'MAP' in FS when creating a route, and there's thin lines all over the place, most with designators like K345 etc. However, when I enter this into the FMC on the left as a route between, say, two VOR's I constantly get the message NOT IN DATABASE.So, I guess my question is, how do I recognise looking at MAP view what lines/names are valid for entering into the FMC?I'm assuming there must be a certain format an airway (is that what you call a route between two waypoints?) must have to be loaded into the FMC? If so, what should this look like so I can find them on MAP view?Appreciate any help. I'm wanting to be relatively FMC-savvy before the 747 arrives late 2010... ; )CheersTimNZWN

[Guest Boaz]

Airways... very helpful aren't they?That is what they are airways... Highways in the sky!Buuuut GPS flying would be even better ;) In the future it will come.Boaz...

[BobP 56]

Hi Tim,On the Route page 2, enter the first waypoint where you join the airway. Then on the left side enter the airway. Then on the right side enter the last waypoint in the airway. Hope that makes sense.Consider this FOC (Flight Operations Center)flight plan:KPHL to KCLEAPT-KPHL/DCT-MXE/DCT-KUPPS/V12-HAR/V210-VOLAN/DCT PUDSE/(I24R-DJB)DCT=directThe sequence would be right side MXE, right side KUPPS,left side v12, right side HAR, left side V210,right side volan,right side pudse...See if you can enter this one and find the airways on the map. There will be a short quiz in the morning. LOL. :)Bob...

[Guest allblack]

Thanks Bob, I'll give that a go.I'm presuming from your example I'll be able to identify what to look for on the map in the future.CheersTim

[engwerda 0]

No need for maps. Have a look at this site;www.rfinder.asalink.net/freejust enter the ICAO code for the departure and destination airports and hit "Enter". You can now print out all the waypoints. At the bottom of the page you will see a reduced list of waypoints. Some have DCT (direct to ) next to them and others have the airways identifier. Simply go to the RTE page on the FMC and then "next page" to see the stored route. If it says in your plan UL789 to ROSTO for example then on the left hand side of ROSTO type in UL789 and then LSK. It should now appear on the left and fill in all the intermediate fixes for you on the "LEGS" page.If you are using the 600/700 NG you will frequently get the "not in database" error message because it it simply is not there. The 800/900 has far fewer of those erors. You could hang on to the 6/700 and update the AIRAC Cyle but it is tricky by all accounts.Gerry

[Guest glenb]

Tim,Gary is right that Route Finder will provide the airways and the beginning and end points. I went for the subscription ($20 ?) which will export a route into PMDG format to be loaded into the FMC without all the typing. You just must be sure it goes in the correct directory.

[crvm 0]

Hello Tim, A few things to keep in mind concerning a route, The first entry is always a DIRECT TO wpt Airways are leg segments comprised of many such wpts, think of them like air highways along a defined path in the sky. After you enter your TO point in the TO line you can then enter an airway relitive to your position. Say you enter J135, the FMC will then prompt you for an ENDING POINT along with segment. In other words you can choose how long you intend on staying on this highway. There are many ways to link such segments and TO wpts to get to where you are going. To modify your inputted route you will always use the LEGS PAGE. On the legs page you most certainly will see Route Discontinuities when manually building a route, basically these are points that do not fit with a COMMON wpt that the FMC joins so you must connect the segements manually. Having charts comes in very handy here or simply knowing some wpts along you path. An example of mine is the arrivial into KLAX rwy 28R SADDE 6 ARR -AVE-DENAY TRANSISTION, here I manually input COVIN between DENAY and SMO otherwise it does not give ample turn to final plus the Route Discontinuity that needs to be closed. A pilot recieves a DISPATCH SHEET, that has weights and routing for the flight, as simmers we tend to be flight dispatchers too! You can obtain some fine dispatch sheets from some of the hard core simmers around here and maybe for a flight you normally do, simply ask someone here.[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]

[Guest cliffie1931]

I thank you all for the information in this string. It's one of the most helpful and interesting I've read for some while.Cliff

[Guest tomahawk_pa38]

I've noticed after I upgraded the 600/700 when I installed the 800/900 that I get a PMDG message which says Updating Airac followed by Waypoints, etc - only takes about a minute - is this new only I've never seen it before ?

[Guest allblack]

Hi Bob.I followed your comments yesterday, and am a bit lost on a few things.Easy one first: when I enter V12 on the left in the FMC, I get 'Invalid Entry', as opposed to Not In Database.Now, I went looking through the Map view for KUPPS, which I could not find. The plan is to go from KUPPS to HAR via V12, correct?So I worked it backwards, found HAR, found V12 and followed it back to find KUPPS, which I assumed would be attached to it as an intersection...(Interestingly, the flight goes from East to West, but V12 joins HAR from the West, seems the wrong way to me!)Sooo, I pick up V12 at HAR, click left repeatedly, pass LOMON, pass POLLS and JUNEY, then V12 becomes J152! What happened to KUPPS????Again, I'm assuming KUPPS would be on the V12 airway, because if it's not, what the routing between KUPPS and V12?Bob, sorry if I'm appearing dopey here, but you explanation was great and I must be missing something fairly straightforward.CheersTimPS: Back to my earlier post, looking at Map view I'm still not sure what thin line and/or 'code' represents a valid airway that can and should be used in the FMC....

[Guest oldngray]

>> Hello Tim,>> A few things to keep in mind concerning a route,>> The first entry is always a DIRECT TO wpt>> Airways are leg segments comprised of many such wpts, think>of them like air highways along a defined path in the sky.>> After you enter your TO point in the TO line you can then>enter an airway relitive to your position. Say you enter J135,>the FMC will then prompt you for an ENDING POINT along with>segment. In other words you can choose how long you intend on>staying on this highway. There are many ways to link such>segments and TO wpts to get to where you are going.>> To modify your inputted route you will always use the LEGS>PAGE. On the legs page you most certainly will see Route>Discontinuities when manually building a route, basically>these are points that do not fit with a COMMON wpt that the>FMC joins so you must connect the segements manually. Having>charts comes in very handy here or simply knowing some wpts>along you path.>> An example of mine is the arrivial into KLAX rwy 28R SADDE 6>ARR -AVE-DENAY TRANSISTION, here I manually input COVIN>between DENAY and SMO otherwise it does not give ample turn to>final plus the Route Discontinuity that needs to be closed.>> A pilot recieves a DISPATCH SHEET, that has weights and>routing for the flight, as simmers we tend to be flight>dispatchers too! You can obtain some fine dispatch sheets from>some of the hard core simmers around here and maybe for a>flight you normally do, simply ask someone here.>>[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]Hi...Just a word of thanks to say that this type of question and answer session on this forum is of tremendous value to many of us who are new, or comparatively new, to the PMDG FMC.I learned a lot from going through Tim Metzinger's tutorial very thoroughly. His progression from fam flight to full blown trip including RON in KATL gives the newcomer a basic understanding of the capabilities of the aircraft itself and the technicalities of the FMC.That said, it is this type of discussion that helps so much where "the rubber meets the road". When one gets away from the tutorial and desires something just a bit different, the details such as given here give more and more insight into how the FMC is really capable of doing things we once thought were not possible.Thanks to those who have taken time to explain the methods and specific actions required.donmac

[BobP 56]

Hi Tim and great questions!Look at the airways presented here and follow the route from the Modena VOR (MXE) to the KUPPS intersection. KUPPS is the intersection I chose to join the V12 airway. Heading west from KUPPS to the Harrisburg VOR (HAR)is the V12 segment. From HAR (beginning way point I chose for joining V210) head west on V210 to VOLAN (end way point). http://www.applebasket.com/Web%20fsnavpic.jpgThe entry into the FMC after POS INIT is on the RTE pages. Page 1 is filled in with DEP and DEST airports and takeoff runway. Then go-to rte page 2 and key in MXE. Place MXE on the right side LSK1. Next key in KRUPPS and place on RIGHT side LSK2. Key in V12 and place on LEFT side LS3. Key in V210 and place on LEFT side. Key in VOLAN and place on right side. It should look like this:http://www.applebasket.com/Web%20cdu.jpgAll of the airways (low (V) and high (J))can be used in your flight plan assuming the nav data is current. I commend you for learning to create flight plans from scratch and manually key them in. It comes in handy on VATSIM when a flight plan change is directed by ATC. It is nice to have the confidence to make the changes or enter SID and STAR's on the fly.I hope this helps. Bob....

[Guest allblack]

Hi Bob,I think I may see the problem....That screen pic is not MSFS Map view, which is what I've been working from.On your screen I can see at least two V12's into HAR.One from BOYER and one from LRP.In FS I'm sure those airways aren't there, but I'll go home tonight and check again.In respect of the FMC, I did the same as your screen pic, but I'll double-check that tonight as well.CheersTimPS: No suggestions please on upgrading to some payware flight-planner system. Management is already pretty snotty about the $$$ I spend on this hobby, she seriously can't see the point in it!

[BobP 56]

Tim,The screen is FSNAV. But it is also in the FS9 Map view.http://applebasket.com/Web%20fsmap.jpgThere is a wealth of charts and procedures available free on the web. Go to VATSIM and register, then Pilot resources. Wonderful resource!Bob....

[Guest Boaz]

I recommend FSBUILD 2.0! It creates flights, can write them manually, then calculates trip fuel and xtra fuel for each PMDG or LVD model, it even recreates the flight in FS format, so you can clear it with ATC in flightsim..Boaz.