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pilotguy365

nVidia 7800 GS OC question

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Hello everyone,I was sick and tired of getting poor frames in the PMDG QOTS and the 400F expansion. So having saved up some serious moola I went and bought a 500W PSU and 2GB of memory and the nVidia 7800 GS OC AGP edition video card. I was just wanting some input from the FS community and the PMDG community on whether or not you guys find this card acceptable ? or some ballpark figures as to how many FPS i can expect ?Sincerely,Tony Nelson

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Different rigs will obviously have differnt FPS. How fast is your processor? Graphics cards are probably the most annoying thing to buy for a PC. There are so many brands offering a lot of fancy big MB numbers but it looks like you have a nice card there. 2GB of memory is plenty..i would have suggested waiting until the new FSX and Windows Vista for an upgrade but if you have purchased them already then you are set for some nice frames. My setup is:2.2GHZ, 80GB HDD, 1GB DDR RAM, RADEON ATI X800 Pro 256MB AGP and have set my FPS to be locked at 25. This is pretty solid in 2D cockpit and using Walk and Follow but in VC mode there is a drop to about 16-25 depending on weather and traffic etc. I built my PC on a budget and plan an extensive upgrade when FSX is released and also Windows Vista, i made the mistake of buying new SDRAM and when XP came out DDR RAM became popular so ill wait and see what the hardware requirements are for the new windows.


Paul McMahon

Ireland

747400.jpg

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roger that,with the upgrades i just did I have 3.2 GHZ, 2GB of RAM PC3200. nVidia 7800 GS OC AGP video card, and some kind of ASUS mobo and I had to send it in becuase when i launched fs the boeing PMDG 47-400F was doing worse than my old ATI Radeon 9800 pro !!! so if you guys think i should be able to get some decent frames in the 400F with this lemme know please,Sincerely,Tony Nelson

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Guest D17S

There seems to be a real performance based balancing act going on between the Vcard and the CPU. Matching the capabilities of the two can be a real challenge. For instance, I have a 2.8 O/C'd to ~3.3 ghz P4 / 1 gig-O-ram with the 6600GT. In the -400's Vcockpit, I'm getting 13-17 FPS with all sliders down a-notch-or-so. I have Video properties set to 4X AA and 8X AF. I have an old AGP system so I couldn't resist trying that new 7800GS too. The only difference the 7800GS made over the 6600GT was this: I was able to max out all MSFS 'eye candy' sliders. But there was no discernable change in Frames per Second. What did that tell me? First, that one additional notch of eye candy slide bar was not worth $350 to me! But technically, I think it's saying this about my system: FPS performance is almost entirely CPU dependant. Eye-candy and resolution is Vcard dependant. If I want higher FPS, I need a faster CPU. This is not to say that an Intel 3.8ghz CPU paired with an ATI 9200 video card (i.e., a very strong CPU with a very old technology Vcard) will not see a Dramatic change in Everything with a Vcard upgrade. An upgrade to a AGP 7800GS (or PCI-E GTX!) will certainly improve both FPS and resolution capability. The CPU and Vcard would then be at about the same level. This only suggests that once you get a CPU and a Vcard that are in about the same league, the CPU will limit FPS and the Vcard will limit resolution/eye candy. Right now, the dual core CPUs will not help MSFS. FS9 cannot use dual cores. The Great Hope is that FSX will utilize both of these new dualies

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Hi, Actually I have playing MSFS in celeron 2.6 (it is suck), and I am planning to buy a new system in a month or so. However, I want to hear from you guys.. should I buy it in May or June or be patient after FSX and vista lanched. In fact my celeron is pretty new, I just brought it 2 months ago (with 512 DDR memory and no video card), and since the mother board supports P4 3.0, I can spend around $120 to get a P4 CPU and replace the celeron, and buy a video card and another 512mb ram. what do you guys suggest, buy a whole new dual core system that support DDR3 ram, or just upgrade my present system and wait until Vista and FSX have finally launched?(The reason why I ask this question is someone mentioned that FS9 does not support dual core, so why do I spend little money now to get a P4, than wait for FSX and VISTA come out and then go get a Dual COre at a lower cost compare with now)Thanksben

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Guest D17S

You outlined your choices pretty well. CPU (120) + a 6600GT (150) + 512 ram (60)= a system that will run FS9 just fine. For another $50 you can get a CPU cooler that will let you O/C your CPU to 3.4+. Another $50 will buy you a second harddrive to set up a "Raid 0." The CPU cooler and second HD swap over to your new system (when you get it) so they are not really throw away expenses. If you do these upgrades, your system will be unrecognizable. . . . compared to what you have now. A fast hyper threaded CPU (~ > P4/3.4 ghz) and a gig of ram in dual channel will make a world of difference. The 6600GT Vcard is a must have. The ATI X800 (850) is fine too. Don't go a nickel less than these though. The 7800 GS is the top AGP card right now, but is over kill (it is too much Vcard) for a ~ 3.0 ghz CPU. You must have an absolute minimum of a name brand 350 watt power supply (or a generic 500 watt). If you have to buy one, go for a name brand 450+ watter. Don't skimp here. The weird problems a weak PS causes will make you crazy. That Raid O is magic too. Load times are a big part of what makes a system feel fast. A Raid 0 really help here. My laptop is just like the system you have now. I absolutely dread having to use it after upgrading my main box as I've described here. It's like day and night.We just don't know what CPU hardware FSX will support. Unless someone needs to render video and wants to fly FS9 at the same time, I really don't see the advantage of the dualies right now. Later, for sure . . . when apps start being enabled for them. But for the next year or 2, nope.So my advice is up grade for less $$$ now. Wait to see what happens with FSX and let general software applications catch up with the hardware. When you do decide to upgrade to a completely new system in a year or two, you

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thx you your advise and I think I will take it.. however, 6600 or 850XT is pretty expensive, any subsitutite?? I am looking at around $130 for video card...BTW, you are right, if nothing support dual at this moment, why spend money on it.....anyway, thanksben

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Guest D17S

Sorry, there's just nothing below a 6600GT that is worth having if you are going to use it for gaming. Anything less would be a waste of $$$. And be very careful not to go for the generic 6600 either. Make sure it's the 6600GT. The plain ol' 6600 is cheaper and has even has 256meg/ram . . . but it does no good to have extra ram onboard if the card can't use it effectively. The 6600 is nowhere near the card the 6600GT is. I see the GTs on sale from time to time. Here it is for $140. Shop a bit and I'll bet you can get it even cheaper. http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...iate=pricewatchHere's a good shopping/search source: http://www.pricewatch.com/Was just flying the SADDI6.AVE STAR into RW ILS24R approach at LAX today. 20+ FPS in the Vcockpit all the way down in just the rig I'm suggesting (PMDG-400, v.PAX plane). Needed a smooth presentation too. That downwind leg over Santa Monica sets up for a very tight base to final for 24R. Actually too tight. I slid way wide and had to come back for the Loc. Try this STAR/Approach (It's all in the FMC's data base). It's a very tight, general aviation style DW/Base/Final pattern flown every day by heavy jets arriving from the north and the west. This STAR/Approach is an extremely busy real world approach. I was listening in the other day to the actual approach controller for 24R as he told a heavy United to follow a Cactus (Southwest) 737. United said he wanted to hang back and watch as he observed "He's got everything out and is dropping like a rock!" A minuite later United accepted his clearance on to the ILS24R approach as he commented to the controller "Well what do you know. He made it." Great fun.

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Guest vertical-speed

"Quote"A fast hyper threaded CPU (~ > P4/3.4 ghz) and a gig of ram in dual channel will make a world of difference.Sam Would you be kind enough to explain what having RAM in dual channelis? - Does it mean having 512Mb x 2 chips?Also wanted to let you know I've got a 6800GS Pcie with a 4400+ x2Toledo 110W and get up to 40FPS with all sliders maxed and while flying payware aircraft such as the PMDG family and Level-D.Do you think it be advantageous for me to upgrade to the GT version?ThanksSandyUK

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Guest D17S

A system that has a dual channel ram (buss) configuration uses the ram sticks in parallel. DDR400 ram can process data at 3200 mb/sec (thus the other name for DDR400, "PC3200"). Most modern computer systems have a main buss speed of 200mhz. DDR means "times 2," so 200 X 2 = 400. All this Front Side Buss = 800 (Intel) or Hyper- transport Buss Technology = 2000 (AMD) stuff is just using a factor to increase the 'marketing pop' for this actual, 200 mhz main system buss buss speed. Go figure. With single channel, 3200mb/sec (3.2gigb/sec) is the max the memory channel can process regardless of the number of sticks the system has. Dual channel provides 2 memory channels that can process 3200mb/sec EACH. So the trick is to buy 2 dual channel qualified sticks (they have to be checked for compatibility at the factory) and install one in each channel's slot. Typically, one memory channel will use ram slots 1 & 3 and the other, slots 2 & 4. If you are getting 40 FPS, chances are you are already using your system's dual channel capability. All modern systems use dual channel ram busses these days. At 40 fps with full sliders, you are home ready. Don't touch nothin'! The only thing a GT might do is allow you to run at the next higher resolution without loosing FPS (12 X 10 >> 16 X 12). Other than that, it's wasted $$$. Your system should be good for several years. You have 1 gig of ram. right? Are you getting any stutters? If so, an extra gig of ram might be just the deal.

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so after having read all of that you guys are basically saying that my 7800GS OC AGP, 2GB of RAM, 500W PSU, and my pentium 4 3.4 GHz PC ain't going to give me doodly squatt for frames ? I seriously hope I did not just waste 700$.I'd like to hear back,Tony Nelson

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Guest D17S

Will frames be better with the new rig? That's entirely dependant on what you are coming from. But what you have now will hold you for a couple of years until more apps are dual core enabled. The only real 'risk' is if FSX can use a dual core CPU. That will drop any single core's comparitor by 50%. But until then, you're within 10% (ex, the new ATI 1900) of the best Vcard and Intel CPU available. That's not bad for 700 bucks. Frames will be whatever they will be with at -10% of the state-of the-art. That is short of a water cooled AMD FX57 O/C'd to 3gHz, 4 seperate (quad SLI'd) 7800GTXs . . . but that's a whole different $5000 ball game. Speed costs. How fast do you want to go! Your rig is a very sane (and functional) alternative. IMHO, you did great.

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Sam,I sincerely apologize if I sound demanding or mean. I am just mind blown becuase 700$ is alot !!! :) However, you ask how fast I want to go. Well the whole reason I did this in the first place is becuase all I want is just 25+ FPS in the PMDG 747 and hope to god the 400F expansion. My old card with all the sliders down could get 18-23 FPS on that beauty. I just want fluidity (especially on the ground) with the PMDG (and to some extent LVLD) Stuff. and just for the record I do believe my comp (before I turned it in to GeekSquad) was in dual mode 2GB i looked on the Mobo and i have 4 channels each 512 MB PC3200. I just need a ballpark yes or no. I'm just really really curious and dedicated to getting decent frames in the 747.Sincerely,Tony Nelson

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Guest D17S

Using my rig as a basis of comparison: With a CPU at 3.3 and a 6600GT, I'm getting 15+ fps with big weather (AS6) and 20 > 25 without -- in the Vcockpit -- at a monitor resolution of 12X10. Your 7800 is the perfect tool to handle big weather. So my guess is that 25 FPS is a very reasonable expectation for resolutions up to 12X10. Your 7800GS will do better than my 6600GT with eye-candy intensive stuff, like clouds. Our CPU are about equal (Want to O/C? Bet that 3.4 will go to 3.8! My 2.8 went to 3.345 . . . before the box caught fire . . . Kidding!). The only problem I'm getting is suttering. We may have finally reached the point where some software needs 2 gig O ram. But you are already there. Oh, BTW, AI traffic and those big airport expansion addons can be a hazard. Those might need that water cooled FX57. If you are getting frame rate problems, first disable that standby indicator in the -F. Then check that no addon AI traffic is running. Next, get away from any addon airport scenery you might have. Not forever. Just as a troubleshooting method. It's a good rig. I'd take it over mine anyday. Trade ja?!

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