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Maintaining repositioned popups with TH2G

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I am running the PMDG 747 for FSX on an XP SP2 machine with a 3 monitor TH2G setup. As anyone who uses such a setup knows, the TH2G stretches and distorts most popup windows in the cockpit. I deal with this by opening each popup and Shift+n window that I use during a flight and then resizing it and repositioning it where I want it to popup on the 3 screen display. Then I save the flight. In the future, I need only launch this flight and I have all my resized and repositioned popups exactly as I want them. I can then move the plane to whatever airport I want and proceed to fly.There is a severe limitation to this procedure and I am posting to see if anyone has worked it out. I've tried but to no avail.Essentially, the popup setup is only valid for the saved flight and any airport to which you may move the plane involved in that flight. Change the engine model or even the livery once you've loaded the saved flight, and the popups revert back to their default and stretched configuration. Even re-loading the saved panel configuration from the original saved flight doesn't correct this problem. You still need to resize and reposition all of the popups for this flight when using a different model or livery.I would love to be able to create a saved panel that has all my resized and repositioned popups and be able to use it with any PDFG 747 engine model or livery. Is there any way to do this?I've explored the text of the saved flight and panel files to see if there might be some way to alter them to apply to a different engine model or livery. However, I've not been able to locate the parameters that might allow for this, assuming it were possible to begin with. It seems to me that the parameters for the resized and repositioned popups must be saved somewhere and that if I could locate where, then I could just copy them, create a series of saved flights with the engine models and liveries that I want, and just paste these parameters into the other saved flights.Any ideas on how to resolve this problem will be appreciated. Thanks.Robert


Robert Chartoff

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I posted this over the weekend and it quickly got buried by an avalanche of other postings. So I thought I'd bump it to the top to see if there might be someone out there who has thought about or dealt with this problem. Thanks,Robert


Robert Chartoff

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Robert,another approach is the modification of the panel.cfg.It not easy though, and NOT SUPPORTED by PMDG, i think.But if you keep a backup copy of the original panel.cfg..I'll see if i have an example avalable..Regards


Joerg Alvermann
Win7 Pro 64Bit - GTX980Ti 6GB - 5760x1200

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ok, just made a quick check if it works.here we go.. a Quick & DIRTY guide to panel.cfg modification..It's not dangerous if you make backup copies of the original panel.cfg files. Anyway, DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!If you run into problems with the 747, be sure to recover the Original panel.cfg file before calling for support!!1. Within FSX main directory find "SimObjectsAirplanesPMD747-400" for the Pax version, or "SimObjectsAirplanesPMD747-400F" for the Freighter2a. if you use the VC, goto the "panel.vc" directory (we're not going to change anything in the virtual cockpit, but the 'panel.cfg' within that directory is relevant also for the 2D panel if you have not unconfigured the VC in the Loadmanager) 2b. if you did unconfigure the VC in the Loadmanager, enter the "panel" directory3. Make a backup copy of the panel.cfg (The Scheme i use: _ORIGINAL_panel.cfg_ORIGINAL)4. Make the backup copy write protected, just for the case5. Open the 'panel.cfg' with an text editor6. Find [Window01] // PMDG_MAIN_PANEL and make the following modification within that sectionOriginal:window_size= 1.000, 1.000change to// window_size= 1.000, 1.000window_size= 0.333, 1.000this will reduce the width of that window (or subpanel if you like) to one third (0.333) of your screen size. The height (1.000) remains the same.you'll see: values can varie between 0 and 1 and are relative to the full screenThe same applies if you want to change the postion of a window:window_pos= 0.500, 0.500will place a window (the window reference point, which is most likely the top left corner) in the middle of the screen.You'll have to apply changes to more [WindowXX]'s.They are all named like '[Window12] // PMDG_CDU_PANEL' So, you'll find youre way, but DON't Touch [Window00] !!It will take some tries before you'll find the values that you need. Take it as some kind of self-education ;-)Note: - Changes in the panel.cfg will at least require an reload of the Aircraft to take effect.- Don't touch any of the 'size_mm=' parameters !!Please refer to the SDK for additional (more accurate) info concerning panel.cfg parametersRegards,


Joerg Alvermann
Win7 Pro 64Bit - GTX980Ti 6GB - 5760x1200

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Joerg, thanks so much for this suggestion. It definitely works, but is a lot of tedious work. It took me all afternoon to set it up. Lots of trial and error and a need to restart the sim after every change or else I would get out of memory errors. But now I can use my panel in any livery or engine model. And that makes flying this bird a lot easier.But I sure wish there were an easier way. You see, I've got lots of other planes that I'd like to do this with as well. I still believe that since the size and location of popups is preserved in a saved flight file, this information must be somewhere in the saved files. But I just can't seem to find it. It is not in the .FLT file. And the .FSSAVE file - when opened in Notepad - is gibberish. My guess is that it's located in there someplace, but in a coded format that can't be read by me anyway.EUREKA! I just had an idea and tried it and it worked. I found where in the saved flight file stores the size and position information. So I'll add it to this reply so that anyone else who's looking for it can find it.It's contained in the .FLT file. About half way down the document you will find a series of entries labeled [Panel.1}, [Panel.2}, etc. I'd tried working with them before but couldn't figure out which entry went with my resized windows. In any event, this is where the information is stored. So what I did is setup a flight with a livery and engine model that still had the default positions and sizing for all popup and Shift+n windows. Then I saved this flight identifying it by the engine and livery. Shut down the sim. Then open the .FLT file for the saved flight that I had created with all my popups and Shift+n windows repositioned and resized. Also open the .FLT file for the new flight that was just saved. In my case - and this may vary, I just don't know - there were 23 panel entries as described above ([Panel.1}, [Panel.2}, etc.) in the .FLT file that had the popups where I wanted them. I copied all these entries and pasted them over all of the panel entries in the .FLT file that I had just created. Then I launched the flight that I had just created and lo and behold all of the window changes I had made in my original saved flight file were now incorporated in that new saved flight. Now I just need to do this for any engine model and livery that I want. Just set up a flight with that livery and save it. Then just paste the panel entries from my original saved flight containing all my changes over the panel entries in the new flight and forever more I will have the popups where I want them when I use that engine model and livery.But, of course, I don't need to do this any more, since I've reconfigured the vc panel.cfg in accordance with the procedure you recommended. But at least it will be an easier way to accomplish this with other planes.Thanks again for your assistance.Robert


Robert Chartoff

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Robert,> but is a lot of tedious work.you're absolutely right. And after the next patch, you'll have to incorporate the changes again ;-(Good to know there's another solution via .FLT files. Thanks for the suggestion. Just another little suggestion if you're thinking about further enhancements of your TH2Go Steup:TH2Go is a wonderful tool but - in my opinion - only of limited value if you prefer the 2D panel over the VC as i do. That's why i've added a 4th Monitor...Regards,Joerghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/180255.jpg


Joerg Alvermann
Win7 Pro 64Bit - GTX980Ti 6GB - 5760x1200

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Jeorg, that's a gorgeous looking setup. I was afraid to go with widescreen monitors out of fear for the image quality since they'd be running under TH2G at something other than their native resolution, and I'm interested in the crispest imaging possible. But they sure do look great in the picture. How are they working out for you?I've been thinking about a fourth monitor for a long time, and I'll definitely give it some renewed consideration. A few practical questions, though.When you want to use the CDU, do you manually move it in order to access its keyboard? And is access to the Overhead Panel provided for somewhere? I guess what I'm getting at is that it sure looks great, but how does it function as a practical matter. I'm guessing that you undock the various windows and then move them to the fourth monitor. I never realized that what I would call the stationary parts of the panel such as the EFIS controls and the MCP could also be relocated, or is that just the 2D panel in full serving as a backdrop with the other instruments such as the PFD, etc. just positioned on top of it?Are you using one of those 3 monitor stands to support the TH2G displays, or have you concocted some other device for raising them above the panel monitor?If you have a chance, I'd sure like to get some more details about your setup.Thanks, Robert


Robert Chartoff

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Robert, I would have loved to add more pictures, but the fourth monitor is currently grounded at the vendors maintenance facility, since it broke down 2 weeks ago :-( I'm impatiently awaiting it's return. I didn't had a chance to test the 747X with this setup so far..The monitors used are all standard 19" running in native 1280x1024. (no widescreen). From an WinXP point of view, the 4th monitor is the Mainscreen. The Windows desktop ist extended to the secondary - the TH2GO - display. That's why FS starts up on the 4th screen with a 1280x1024x32 resolution.Then i rearrange the panels. (I'll use your .FLT suggestion in the future ;-) The outside view moves to the TH2GO screen, and is resized to span all 3 screens. The TH2G Screen is also used for the Overhead (placed on the screen in the middle), the Throttle (left screen) and the Comm (right screen) panel. That way i have 4 screens available for almost all necessary panels during preflight.The panel on the picture is the captains zoom panel, only dragged to the top of the screen. The window is not rearranged, only the gauges within the mainscreen are dragged with the mouse. You can grab any control with the left mouse key in any area that is not transparent and where a mouse klick do not lead to any action. And, yes i'll have to move the FMC that way to get access to the keypad. An additional 12" or 15" touchscreen would be a better solution to place the FMC on.. ;-) Ok, something for the future....The TH2GO montitors are placed on a cheap wooden bookshelf which is only 30 cm in depth. The rack is from a famous (at least in europe) swedish furniture store I**A. I've cut them down to fit my needs.HW Setup:Graphic: Nvidia 7950GT (for the reason of 512MB memory on a single card) with 2 DVI-Out1st DVI: single monitor (Digital)2nd DVI: TripleHead2Go (analog edition)Monitors: all standard 19" (no widescreen)CPU: Intel 6600 Core2 Duo Memory: 4 GBWarnings:I've experienced problems regarding the VC with this setup. The VC shows up on the TH2G screen, but is not 100% usable any more. This varies from AC to AC and i think it's due the 2D Panel on the 4th screen. This is especialy true for the LVLD 767. Since i don't use the VC it's ok for me.I have also tested an SLI Setup: No advantage in FS9 neither in FSX. Save the money... Hope this helps!Regards,


Joerg Alvermann
Win7 Pro 64Bit - GTX980Ti 6GB - 5760x1200

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Ryan,thanks a lot.I would never have spend that money without companies like PMDG. You're bringing Flightsimming to this extraordinary level.Thank you for this wonderful Aircraft!Regrads,


Joerg Alvermann
Win7 Pro 64Bit - GTX980Ti 6GB - 5760x1200

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Joerg, that's a wonderfully detailed explanation of how you set up your 4 monitors. Thanks to your effort I now understand how it's done. Now it's just up to me to decide whether I want to give it a try - and can make it work on my desk, which is used for work as well, and already accommodates 4 monitors (although the 4th is for a separate machine running things like a moving map, FS Commander, Google Earth, etc.) and a laptop for FSX. I've attached a picture to give you an idea, although it's missing your spectacular orange-hued sunset. But I don't know how to display it in the message proper, so you'll need to click below and download it I suppose in order to view it.I'd have sworn those were widescreen monitors you're using. Fooled me for sure.I hope you get your monitor back soon. Thanks again, Robert.


Robert Chartoff

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WOW! Alex, Welcome to the 3-screener club ;-) I'm a bit puzzled by the question how you setup the windows with the outside views, but anyway, nice to know that your HW is sufficient to drive this setup. You must push the PCI Bus to it's limits ;-)I just recognized that you live in wonderful BC. I hope to see Vancouver Island the next time i'll be there (3 years gone since my last visit to Whistler)Regards,


Joerg Alvermann
Win7 Pro 64Bit - GTX980Ti 6GB - 5760x1200

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Robert, you're welcome. I see your 'problem'. (What a wonderful old desk). I've had to move my desk out of the way. It's now at the right hand of my setup. All is placed in a room where nobody bothers about the optical appearance..Two questions though from my side..- What's that program with the (moving?) map? Looks interesting..- The mountain on the photo in the background.. is this K2 (westface)?(quite offtopic but im curious)Regards,


Joerg Alvermann
Win7 Pro 64Bit - GTX980Ti 6GB - 5760x1200

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- What's that program with the (moving?) map? Looks interesting..That's TopoUSA. I use GPSOut to transmit the location info to a second machine on my network that drives the 4th monitor. WideFS may also be involved; I just don't recall. The program is a mapping program for the US - far better and more detailed than Microsoft's Streets & Trips. With it I can also create topo maps for when I go backpacking in the Sierras. I highly recommend it, even though I think the interface is terrible.I've nothing similar for Canada and would love to find one at a reasonable cost. For Europe I use the European version of Microsoft's Streets & Trips, although I'm sure there's something better for those who fly there often. MS's product is more a road atlas than a mapping program. For the rest of the world - and sometimes the US and Europe - I use Google Maps via FS Earth v5.1.- The mountain on the photo in the background.. is this K2 (westface)?(quite offtopic but im curious)I wish it were K2. I always wanted to get there, but political and logistical problems always prevented me from doing so. It's Everest accompanied by Lhotse and Nuptse. I shot it from the summit of Kala Patar (they spell it differently these days), which is just a 5500 meter hill leading up to Pumori. Here's the Wikipedia page on the hill, which is very non-technical and unimpressive, but has great views of the Everest group:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kala_Patthar


Robert Chartoff

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