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Guest CHRISH

PIC 767 with Geforce4 Ti 4600

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Guest CHRISH

Has anyone got a system based on the Geforce4 Ti 4600, and if so what difference has it made to Frame Rates with PIC 767 and just as importantly the clarity of the images on screen, have they improved much.My system AMD 1800 xp512 RAM,20GB HDDGeforce2 GTSDirectx 8.1Win 98seAv FPS : 1152 x 864 all sliders set to max, with PIC 767, vis locked at 20 miles DME, AI traffic using add on aircraft mainly by the excellent Austair design people (as opposed to default traffic) best FPS 16-20.(After fresh re-boot)Best Wishes,Chris

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You're gonna see a pretty substantial increase iver a GF2GTS... The cool thing about the GF4 too is that antialiasing has no effect on performance - it makes the game look MUCH better.

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I'm thinking about this upgrade too. Some time ago someone posted something about the GF4 screwing up the PIC panel's visuals, anyone care to comment?Greg

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Yes it does screw up the panel visuals but ONLY with antialiasing (sp?) ON. Off, it works fine with the panel.Eric

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HiI have had no problems running PIC with a Visiontek Ti4600 with fullFSAA.It`s quite nice as a matter of fact.Ron

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Guest MB327

Please guys keep this string going. I am on the brink of buying the "4" and I fly the PIC almost exclusively. I am using a GF2 TI now with 64mb of RAM on a 900 mhz AMD Athlon with 512 RAM. I have not been completely satisfied with frame rates, more accurately the frequent stutters. That was a way of life in FS2000 but not expected in FS2002. I have made about every possible tweak in display properties and still can

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Mike,I'm just about to rebuild my test rig which will include a Ti4600. I'm also interested to see if there will be much of a performance difference from my current GEF II Ultra. I doubt it. A few more notches to the right on the display sliders I guess. Just waiting for my supplier to get a new stock of Epox mobos in.

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Guest WorkingStiff

Dean,Based on a number of similar discussions on video card upgrades I think youre correct. Anyone expecting a significant increase in frame rates is likely to be quite disappointed since the bottleneck to frame rates is in the processor and not the video card.After following a number of such discussions on the General board, I upgraded from a GeForce 2 MX 32 mb card to a Geforce3 64 mb two weeks ago. Since my processor an 1200 Ghz it made sense to go with a GF3 instead of a GF4. I was quite surprised to learn that a GF3, although older, is at least 15 percent faster than a GF3 Ti .... one has to ignore the marketing spiels and get the appropriate card to match the processor.I had my old card locked at 15 fps with most of the options set at 100%. With the GF3, I have everything maxed out and locked at 22 fps. The upside is infinitely better graphics, not necessarily a quantum increase in frame rates.

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Here's the rundown on the Nvidia speed hierarchy... I agree the "Ti" naming is very confusing, so here it is from high to low:GeForce4 Ti4600GeForce4 Ti4400GeForce4 Ti4200GeForce3 Ti500GeForce3GeForce3 Ti200GeForce4 MXGeForce2 Ultra (now called a Ti)GeForce2 ProGeForce2 GTSGeForce2 MXAs you can see, they've further complicated things with the GF4MX, which is actually slower than any of the GF3 cards, the reason being that it is actually a slightly enhanced GeForce 2 chip core and not the full flegged GF4 chip that's in the two top cards.Even taking the processor into consideration, you're going to see a large increase between a GF4 Ti and a GF2MX. Today's CPUs can easily saturate the GF2MX chip, they can't however with a 3 or 4. The reason I'd get the GF4 now over the GF3 is for the antialiasing - it's totally free, the chip does all the work and you don't lose FPS by turning it on the way you do with a GF3. I can also confirm with the latest Detonator driver set (28.32 under XP), the blurring/smearing panel problems have gone away.Read this article http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1613 - it's a shootout between all the availiable GF4 cards - personally, I'd get the Gainward card, which is what I have. They recommend the PNY card as well in the article. I love it and have never had a single problem with it. www.newegg.com has good prices on them.

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Guest ilh

I wonder where my Quadro2 Pro falls in that ranking. I'm guessing at the top of the GF2s. Antialiasing is "free" (no effect on frame rate).Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

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Chris,I have the Creative Ti4600 in a system comprising Athlon 2000XP, 512Mb PC2100 RAM, Iiyama 19" Pro 454 and Sony 400PST 19" monitors. The last two items are especially important since they work hand-in-hand with the graphics card. I'm going to put the cat amongst the pigeons here by saying there's no point buying this card unless you have a 19" monitor or higher. You will never get the full performance from the Ti4600 unless you are running it near its full capability which means high or very high resolutions. 1280*1024 should be considered the minimum with 1600*1200 or higher being preferable if your display allows it. At 1600*1200 there's no need for FSAA and it's borderline at 1280*1024.Additionally, the Ti4600 supports dual displays and again, I wouldn't recommend it if you are going to run it with a single display. Buy a Ti4400 instead.Image quality is superb but again, it depends on the quality of the display. I suspect if you're running at 1152*864 you have a 17" monitor and to be honest I would suggest you upgrade that before spending so much on the graphics card.Cheers,

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Guest CHRISH

Thanks Ray,I have a 19" Monitor, I have set to 1152 x 864 because its playing on my eyes at higher resolutions. (Which for a Illyama monitor is surprising).Others in the forum have reported problems with the anti-aliasing have you had problems?Many thanks,Best Wishes,Chris

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Chris what do you have your refresh rate set to for those higher resolutions? Anything under around 72 will hurt your eyes, I run all my resolutions at 85...I'm pretty sure the antialiasing problems were all caused by the older drivers - once I upgraded to the new ones, the problem totally went away.

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Hi Chris,I have a 19" Monitor, I have set to 1152 x 864 because its playing on my eyes at higher resolutions. (Which for a Illyama monitor is surprising).Bear in mind that when FS2002 is loaded a gauge will appear the same size irrespective of resolution. You don't see any more at 1600*1200 than you do at 640*480 - you simply see it in much more detail.Can you quantify what problems you're having at higher resolutions? Is it too low a refresh rate? 85hz is necessary for flicker-free viewing? Or is it that the monitor is not high enough quality to display higher than 1152*864? That would surprise me for an Iiyama. What model is it?As far as anti-aliasing is concerned it only works in full-screen mode and I've found that when the colour depth is set to 16-bit in Windows but 32-bit in FS2002 the panel exhibits a strange colour. Switch Windows to 32-bit and the problem goes away. But as I said earlier, at 1600*1200 there's no need for AA (to my eyes at least).I see many people discuss various graphics cards and which one is best for FS but discussion on quality displays (either TFT or CRT) is much less common but equally important. There's no point in buying a quality graphics card unless a display is up to displaying that image. For the Ti4600 a display of 1280*1024*16-bit should be considered the minimum and if you can afford a 22" CRT seeing FS2002 at 2048*1536 @ 85Hz will knock you over. The Ti4600 can deliver that resolution but only the very best displays can support it. Unfortunately my Pro 454 only supports 85Hz up to 1600*1200 but then again, I'm not really complaining :-)Hope that helps.Cheers,

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I just installed a evga (reference cooling) geforce 4 TI4400 in my computer. I had an Asus geforce 2 GTS with 32Meg's before the upgrade. I offer the following observations:1. I do not have any panel issues with FSSA on.2. With this card you can enable a 4XS FSSA mode. I was stunned at the difference in the anti-aliasing improvement over the geforce 2.3. With the Geforce 4 series you can enable a feature called digital vibrance, which allows you to enhance the color saturation. With that said the colors are for a lack of a better term more vibrant. The sky has a nicer blue, the ground textures are greener, etc...4. The geforce 4 series has better video output filters, this translates into clearer display both in 2D and 3D.5. No noticable difference in FPS.6. I use the Dual head feature (running a 19" viwsonic a90 for primary and a viewsonic a70 for secondary)it is much more convenient than using two video cards. No messing with IRQ's and the displays are more even in color saturation and quality. The Pic panel looks better than it ever has on my second monitor.7. I had some driver install problems with win XP pro, but got them figured out. Shouldn't be an issue for you running 98se8. This card has VIVO so I can do video inout, which I plan on using with my camcorder. Not sure if that feature is something you would be needing but I should mention that. Not all TI4X00 have that feature so be aware of that if you purchase a card. I would say for me that it was worth it to upgrade. I got the card at NewEgg, the order shipped the same day, and I only paid 235 for it as well.Hope this helps.Scott..

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Hmmm interesting, anti-aliasing works in both full screen and windowed mode for me. That was true for me when I ran a Geforce 2 GTS and my new Geforce 4 TI4400. That was with version 21.85 and 29.20 respectively.Scott..

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Scott,I'm attaching two images - both taken at 1600*1200*32-bit. The first is full-screen with AA enabled. The second is Windowed but still with AA enabled. I'll let you decide which you prefer. To my eyes AA does not work in Windowed mode. I'm running on Detonator drivers 28.32.Cheers,

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I have a P4 1.7GHz, GF2 MX400, 512MB SDRAM. Worth the upgrade?Thanks,Greg

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I just performed my own screen captures to verify my statement, and I have to stand behind it. On my machine it makes no difference whether you are in full screen or windowed mode, anti-aliasing works.The differences in hardware, software configurations must be at work here, cause your screen shots tell another story. This is an interesting problem as to why we are seeing different behavior.Scott

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Well only you can decide the worth of an upgrade, but let me ask you some ?'s1. Do you have 64 megs on your video card or 32 megs? that makes a difference in the level of FSSA (anti-aliasing)that you can select. If you select in the properties the 4X but do to the amount of memory and your resolution (this includes for example a resolution, say 1024 X 768 and bit depth ie. 16 bit or 32 bit) the drivers will select the amount of FSSA that the card can be support. With 32 megs the level will be less than 64 (even though the panel lets you select whatever value you want). With that said are you happy with the FSSA you have now or would you like it to be better? I noticed a big change in my FSSA and that helped me to feel good about my upgrade.2. You will be disappoined if you think FPS will improve greatly. I would say you may see a few FPS but that would be the most you may see. So if you go and do an upgrade not expecting an increase you will at least not be disappointed by that aspect. 3. Does your GF2MX400 have single or dual head? If not and you plan in the future to have dual monitors then an upgrade is looking sweeter and more worth it.4. You have the ability with your card to select different digital vibrance values so thats a toss up, no benefit of gain on that issue. However there is the issue of video quality and in MY eyes it improved a lot with my upgrade. I do want to caution that video quality is VERY subjective from one person to the next. If money is not tight then sure to me its a good choice to upgrade, specially if you would use the card with other games beside FS2K2.I had serious problems with my old set up using a geforce 2 GTS and a number of PCI secondary video cards that I tried, so when NVidia came up with a more powerfull dual head solution then the GF2 MX series I was ready to take the plunge. Hope this gives you some things to think about, and helps you in your decision.Scott

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Guest Charly

Additionally, the Ti4600 supports dual displays and again, I wouldn't recommend it if you are going to run it with a single display. Buy a Ti4400 instead.Why? The Ti4400 supports dual displays too. The Leadtek A250TD Ti4400 card can reach the Ti4600 performance easily...and exceed it.This card is a overclocked dream come true...and you can spend the rest of the money in memory.http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3ce1f7745165a314.jpghttp://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3ce1f77f516b5ea6.jpgRegards :-waveCharly - BAW062

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Charly,Why? The Ti4400 supports dual displays too. The Leadtek A250TD Ti4400 card can reach the Ti4600 performance easily...and exceed it.My mistake - the Ti4400 also supports dual-display. I must have got confused with another of the models (there's so many of them!).However, with all things equal there's no way the Ti4400 can equal or outperform the Ti4600. It has a slower memory (550Mhz vs 650Mhz) which will make a difference. If you overclock a Ti4400 then it may outperform a unclocked Ti4600 but that's not a level playing field.

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Scott,I just performed my own screen captures to verify my statement, and I have to stand behind it.Yes, AA is definitely enabled on both shots. Maybe I need to set some options to enable it in Windowed mode but to be honest I can live without it so it doesn't really bother me.

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I too have the Leadtek Winfast Nvidia4 Ti4400. I care about cash so I did not opt for the Ti4600. In the UK it really is too expensive at the moment. I would strongly advise to run with the Ti4400 and then using the spare

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Guest Charly

Ray:Agree with you, but if you buy the Leadtek Ti4400 card you can get the Ti4600 performance easily....so, why spend more money? The Ti4400 comes with exactly the same memory that the Ti4600 have...there is no risk in overclock it...in fact the memory in the Ti4600 is nearly at the limit....you can't overclock too much the Ti4600... the Ti4400 is another story. In the chart below you can see that the overclocked Visiontek Ti4400 exceed the overclocked eVGA Ti4600 performance. (ALL the cards are overclocked.)http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3ce32b1a13bde170.jpgOther review: "nVidia's GeForce4 Ti4400 should not be ignored as some "middle of the road" solution that's neither the best performer or the lowest priced. Our tests show the Ti4400 family of cards to be extremely strong gaming cards that can put up numbers right along side nVidia's own Ti4600, without the extra cost. We've already seen quite a lot of interest in Ti4400-based cards, not only since they're cheaper than Ti4600 cards, but are actually available at many locations, whereas many Ti4600 cards sell out faster than can be kept in stock. If overclocking is all you're interested in, the Leadtek card is certainly your bag of tea. The monstrously large cooling on that card will no doubt give you the best chance at getting your GeForce4 Ti to higher clock speeds. "Regards :-waveCharly - BAW062

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