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Manual for the FMC

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Sorry if my comments sound unkind. It is just that I am quite frustrated with the PIC manuals, especially the FMC manual. Well here it goes. Attempting to read this manual is like standing in the middle of a large room with about 100 people all talking at the same time. Every once in a while, I can glean some information that makes since. It just seems so unorganized. So, if anyone has or knows of a check list for just entering data, I would be forever greatful. One more thing, if one begins entering data and wishes to stop and start over, is there a way of clearing the FMC short of close flight sim and starting over. I am using FS2K2 with the PIC updates and navdata update as well.Thanks for the place to vent,UPS706-=BJ=-

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Guest KenG

That's why the forum regulars suggest reading the manuals more than once. It isn't that it is unorganized - once you know how it all works, you'll realize that it actually well written and organized - it is that there is a lot to learn.Take your time. Read it once. Then go back and read it again while following the steps to programming it. MANY people have figured it out, so it is possible.As for clearing the info, you can start over with the nav info by just entering a new Departure airport on the RTE page.Without giving all the steps, here's basically what I do (not all abbreviations are as will be seen in PIC as I'm doing this from memory):1. Enter the ICAO airport identifier in the POS INIT page for REF AIRPORT (use the airport you are currently at)2. Enter departure and destination airports in RTE page3. Go to DEP/ARVL page and enter your departure airport RW and any SIDs/transition if you have downloaded them4. Go back to the RTE page and hit NEXT PAGE5. Enter your waypoints along the right side and jetways along the left side in the order you will use them6. Go to DEP/ARV page and enter your STAR and transition and landing RW (you can change them later should the winds favor something else)7. Click on the ACTIVATE LSK and then EXEC8. Go to PER INIT page and enter 245 as ZFW (unless using metric) and a value for Reserves (10 is a good number for shorter flights)9. Enter a flight level and Cost Index (you can use 80, but any higher numbers (up to 999) will give more performance and higher fuel burn)10. Go to the TAKEOFF page and enter 15 for takeoff flaps. Don't worry about derated takeoffs now, just learn the basics.11. You should see a Pre-flight Complete message on that page, if not, go back and find out what you've missed.There may be some missed steps. Again, I'm doing this strictly from memory. Keep the first attempts to short routes. For example, a flight from Seattle to San Francisco would look like this:KSEA-ELMAA6.ELMAA-J589-RBG-J143-PYE-KSFO. The ELMAA6 is the SID with a transition to ELMAA, then Jetway 589 (enter along the left side of the route page), RBG (entered along the right side), and so on. BTW, this is just a plane I grabbed out of FSBuild and may not be realistic to any airline.Hope some of this helps...and study those manuals. They're really full of all the info you'll need.

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BobUsing the FMC will become easier with time. It took me 3 weeks before I had it all figured out and I'm still learning something new each day. Eveyone has gone through this stage to the point to they actually stopped flying the PIC767 because the FMC was just to hard to figure out. Give it time and if we need to do a few more multiplayer flights to get you up to speed on it, let me know. Dan MUPS703

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Guest wkzzo

I find it very well written, just read through it a couple time's and it will come to you. It also helps to have the fmc up and running while reading through the manual, that way you can try all the different aspects of the fmc. It really is not as hard as it looks, once you get it it will become second nature.

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Guest Ali

Hi, a querie. If I have already mastered Dreamfleet 737 and it's FMC, not completely mastered but you know what I mean, the flight planning and everything from takeoff speeds to SIDs etc.Then shouldn't I have a problem taking on the PIC767 with no problem whatsoever when I get it or do I need to completely learn from scratch?Many thanks my friends.Ali.

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Guest KenG

It will be of great help to learn ANY FMC regardless of what plane it was designed for. However, there are differences between the FMC for an American Airlines B767-300 and a 737-400. Therefore, there are going to be procedural differences between PIC and DF734. You won't have to relearn from scratch, but you will have to read the manual to figure out some of the differences. The PIC FMC also has some features enabled that the DF734 doesn't. Anyway, if you know the DF734 FMC, you should not have too much trouble, just don't leap into the PIC FMC and try to use all the procedures you learned with the other one without reading the manual.

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Oh baby...I love posts like this....Here goes...BJ.....As some of the other posts have mentioned...most users have no problem understanding the FMC manual. Problem is, most of the time, from what I've gathered over my several years of perusing the AVSIM forums, there seem to be a lot of "young'uns" who think that every aspect of flightsimming should be really easy. SORRY...not this time. Unfortunately for you, you've chosen inarguably the most advanced addon there is for MSFS, the PIC767. And, again, like so many other intelligent simmers here have advised you, READ, again and again. What you've got here in the PIC767 is, for the money, perhaps as close as you will ever get to flying a real 767 simulator or, God forbid, the real thing. I see from your post that you assume that learning the FMC should be a piece of cake. What do I recommend for you BJ??? Step back from the PIC767 and take on a Cessna or KingAir or something. Probably more your speed....Ooops...Sorry everyone, got carried away there. I apologize BJ if I seem harsh. To be on the nice side.......Just read the manual...It is extremely organized....Perhaps it'll all "click" for you and you'll see the light...Happy simming....Tony P.

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>Oh baby...I love posts like this.... So you can pick on kids ??? Grow up. >Here goes...BJ..... >>As some of the other posts have mentioned...most users have >no problem understanding the FMC manual. Thats right "Most" which in other words mean "not all" Everybody learns differently... give him a break.>Problem is, most of the time, from what I've gathered over my >several years of perusing the AVSIM forums, there seem to be a lot >of "young'uns" who think that every aspect of flightsimming >should be really easy. Agreed True to some extent... Half as many kids want it more complex! Don't forget.> SORRY...not this time. >Unfortunately for you, you've chosen inarguably the most >advanced addon there is for MSFS, the PIC767. No doubt!> And, again, >like so many other intelligent simmers here have advised >you, READ, again and again. What you've got here in the >PIC767 is, for the moneyIts worth the money sure but I don't really like your next comment.>perhaps as close as you will ever >get to flying a real 767 simulator or, God forbid, the real >thing. You know what they say about assuming ? Please don't under estimate young blood... Infact you shouldn't under estimate anybody!!!Some kids in here are PPL or working on CPL and I find your comment very NEGATIVE towards them. You fly 767s in real life ?> I see from your post that you assume that learning >the FMC should be a piece of cake. What do I recommend for >you BJ??? Assuming again, are we?>Step back from the PIC767 and take on a Cessna or >KingAir or something. Probably more your speed.... and again>Ooops...Sorry everyone, got carried away there. I apologize >BJ if I seem harsh. What can I say... your a funny guy. Did you have a bad day at work?>To be on the nice side.......Just read the manual...It is extremely >organized....Perhaps it'll all >"click" for you and you'll see the light... Time well wasted replying to you... I just had to do it.Best,Haroon

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>Time well wasted replying to you... I just had to do it. >I am afraid I have to say the same thing in replying to your post Haroon. I write in defense of Tony's. I find his post right on the money. It is a common knowledge around here that some want to be proficient 767PIC users in a day. Unfortunately they quickly find out they have to read the manuals. Most swallow this bitter pill and move on. Perhaps they return a few days later to ask for some clarification. But it is the first time I see someone here who complains he can't find his way through the manual (unorganized ?). There are different manuals out there (for VCRs, dishwashers, electric toothbrushes, etc.) but PIC's manuals are monument of clarity considering their complexity - if you are willing to read them from A to Z. When I originally started reading the FMC manual I was even slightly irate by the fact that the same information is repeated to you over and over again, - is it for kids (?) I had a passing thought. I prefer a more terse style. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised if in fact BJ's age had all answers to his apparent lack of patience. Michael J.


Michael J.

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Haroon,Although Tony's tone could have been nicer, his post is certainly not BS.I can understand that if someone doesn't quite grasp something in PIC at the first glance and feels helpless, that this person then goes on to seek help here, in the PIC forum. I've done it many times. That's OK and I think BJ has gotten a plenty of good replies as well.But to suggest that PIC767 would be for kids or the "Iwantitnow"-types of people is utterly wrong. Certainly there are kids and youngsters who are able to comprehend and use PIC but they aren't the primary target group for this software. PIC767 is a very comprehensive and detailed simulation of a heavy airliner including almost all its systems, knobs and gizmos. Do you expect a 10 year-old to learn the systems of a real 767 in "just a sec"? I didn't think so... Certainly kids should be given a Cessna or something less "organized" to begin with.Tony's post just made it perhaps even clearer that reading the fine manual(s) is imperative in order to operate this panel. There's no use in discussing every single detail here in the forums when it's all in the books, now is there? Some certain things that are "off" in the manual have come and are coming to surface every now and then, but with a little searching around most of the stuff can be found and matters resolved with a little "manual labour". And certainly there is no "Joe's easy guide" for FMC, it's the heart of the aircraft for all I know, and should be learnt thoroughly from A to Z (imo). BJ,Just read the manuals over and over and experiment with the panel. It's all in there to get discovered. One needs to use the darn thing alongside reading to "get" some of the stuff in the manuals. And that's how things are learnt best, you don't forget so easily. Good luck!!cheers,Terop.s. BJ, don't hesitate posting here again. Although I say that manuals should be the first source of information, I'll be glad to help (as well as I personally can) you to understand the stuff.


PPL(A)

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Hi Ken,One thing: Isn't flaps 5 mostly used in 767s for T/O, as opposed to flaps 15 in 757s? I think I've read that a few times somewhere... Tero


PPL(A)

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Guest KenG

Eric stated that, for at least American Airlines, the standard operating procedure for the 767 T/O is flaps 15. Other carriers may have different procedures, but with a ZFW of 245,000 lbs, I would assume 15 degrees would be better than 5 unless the RW is very long. Also, if the PIC Team says their plane was designed for 15 under most instances, I'll go by what they say.

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>>Time well wasted replying to you... I just had to do it. >>>>I am afraid I have to say the same thing in replying to your >post Haroon. >>I write in defense of Tony's. I find his post right on the >money. It is a common knowledge around here that some want >to be proficient 767PIC users in a day. Unfortunately they >quickly find out they have to read the manuals. Most swallow >this bitter pill and move on. Perhaps they return a few days >later to ask for some clarification. But it is the first >time I see someone here who complains he can't find his way >through the manual (unorganized ?). There are different >manuals out there (for VCRs, dishwashers, electric >toothbrushes, etc.) but PIC's manuals are monument of >clarity considering their complexity - if you are willing >to read them from A to Z. When I originally started >reading the FMC manual I was even slightly irate by the fact >that the same information is repeated to you over and over >again, - is it for kids (?) I had a passing thought. I >prefer a more terse style. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised >if in fact BJ's age had all answers to his apparent lack of >patience. >>Michael J. Micheal,I agree with what you said :-) ... but my response is more towards the "tonality" of Tonys post.Anyway.Best,Haroon

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>p.s. BJ, don't hesitate posting here again. Although I say >that manuals should be the first source of information, I'll >be glad to help (as well as I personally can) you to >understand the stuff. Atleast somebody thinks positive :-)Appreciated Tero.Best,Haroon

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