Mr.(s) Wade, Eric, Pedro, Laurent:I'm going to just be bold and ask right out, hoping one of you guys might pop into the PIC forum and see this. Can you all offer any kind of insight at all as to PIC and FS2004? Yes, no, could be, maybe, undecided, ect., ect. Thank you sirs.

STOP with these posts - FS2004 has been out - count'em 5 days!The team will respond in good time.For gawd's sake people. Patience is a virtue.DS CVA3339 / UKD149System: Attlon 900 McW Hamster/Gerbilized Quantum Accessible 55Gig Iodized-Encrusted Four-poster with Mega-brill Farzenhuuven http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

I'm not trying to bug anybody, just asking a simple question. Stay calm and lay off the coffee a little.

DShutt,Why can't you just leave these newbies alone instead of lambasting them when they ask a simple question? If you check Decision_Heights posts you'll see he's a relative newcomer. That is no way to talk to people least of all those new to the 767PIC.I have noticed a real clique in this forum and some elements of it are very unattractive - others are very helpful. I'm surprised any new-comers dare ask a question if this is the sort of response they're going to get.And remember one other thing. You're just another member like me and Decision Height. You don't have any extra privileges. If you can't respond in a civil or useful manner then surely the best thing to do would be to move on to the next message?Of all the forum's on AvSim this has to be one of the most hostile to questions. A sad state of affairs.

"Of all the forum's on AvSim this has to be one of the most hostile to questions. A sad state of affairs."I'd rather rephrase that, as this is not true!better say: Of all the forum's on AvSim this has to be one of the most hostile to people with no patience."I think the main problem lies within the difference in generations present on this forum.I can guarantee you that there are patient users here and that 75% of them will be the 'older' generation. So my point is that newcomers, whatever their age and maturity, firstly try reading a few messages instead of bluntly throwing all their desires into this forum, alot of them have been answerred and neednt be repeated...i could be wrong, as this is only my opinion and nothing personal against you Ray, you know that.Cheers

Ray : 100% agree with you! Matthias

"Of all the forum's on AvSim this has to be one of the most hostile to questions."I disagree with Ray's opinion. I think most user groups, PIC767 or otherwise expect users, new or old, to check the forum for an answer to their question before posting.That being said, I personally have no problem with answering someone's question if it has been asked before and the answer is buried somewhere in the depths of the forum. Sure a search might turn up the answer, but what the heck, it takes little effort to point the person to the original thread or answer the question again. However, in this case there were 2 or 3 threads already on PAGE 1 of the forum!! Clearly dealing with the topic of PIC767 in FS2004/FS9/FS:COF.As Daryl points out, FS2004 has been out for a matter of days. It will no doubt take some time for developers of products created for FS2000/FS2002 to determine if they can, or if it is worth, patching these products for FS2004.There are a large group of people who visit this forum who enjoy using the PIC767 because of the detail that went into modeling the systems and flight dynamics of this simulated aircraft. I, like everyone else, would like to be able to use this model in FS2004 and take advantage of some the aesthetic improvements in the new version of FS. However, I believe that when the PIC767 team decide when/if they will patch or create a new model, they will likely announce it by way of an anchored thread at the top of the forum and not as a reply to user

I think the problem stems from the fact that people who are new to the forum tend not to help themselves, but prefer to be spoon-fed answers which often exist on page 1. Often, they will not even scan the first page of a forum to see if the question has already been asked, performing a search for an answer seems to be beyond their abilites.So, I do understand the frustration that is now being voiced by forum regulars to the constant repitition of the same old questions, and questions where the answers are right in front of them. It is annoying and regulars will tend to make a point of letting others know about it. This forum is one of the most "mature" and the very best IMHO BECAUSE the regulars 'stand guard'...take a look at some of the BS on most other forums and I am glad that some people are told-off for posting repetitive questions and not trying to help themselves first. Some newbies need to be told, then things get better. Ever wonder why WELP don't frequent the forum much...I would suggest 99% of the problem is the constant repetitive bashing and ridiculous demands that 99% of the time come from a newbie and ruin it for the rest of us.My 2.5 cents.Rob.

Everyone has to learn somewhere about the initmate details of forum etiquite.It's beyond rude to jump all over someone who BRAND NEW over something as trivial as posting a question.Were this the 2nd or 3rd post he's made on this topic I could understand the frustration, also if he were a forum regular.However neither is true and instead of responding with a friendly, HELPFUL comment, he gets jumped on.That's kinda of behavior is just as much a breach of forum etiquite as asking an already answered question.... especially in a support forum.

I know you aren't trying to equate this gentleman's 'if' question to the bashing others have taken on the WELP team.

...but the question and answer were on page 1!!!!!???I am sorry, but I don't see how being new can excuse you from having common sense.Give me, give me...it's a ME generation gone mad and no one wants to do anything about it...I applaud the defenders of our forum's integrity and expectations of maturity. Asking about a patch for FS2004 5 days after release is a clear sign of the need for corrective measures....to see the question asked 4 times on page 1 and have people defend those who continue to ask the same freaking question is just silly. I don't see how anyone can defend this behaviour.Rob.PS - The reason why people don't just ignore the post and move on is because THEY CARE about this forum, they beleive in the product, and they will be damned if some whiny toddlers are going to come in and #### all over it.

>DShutt,>>Why can't you just leave these newbies alone instead of>lambasting them when they ask a simple question? If you check>Decision_Heights posts you'll see he's a relative newcomer.>That is no way to talk to people least of all those new to the>767PIC.>>I have noticed a real clique in this forum and some elements>of it are very unattractive - others are very helpful. I'm>surprised any new-comers dare ask a question if this is the>sort of response they're going to get.>>And remember one other thing. You're just another member like>me and Decision Height. You don't have any extra privileges.>If you can't respond in a civil or useful manner then surely>the best thing to do would be to move on to the next message?>>Of all the forum's on AvSim this has to be one of the most>hostile to questions. A sad state of affairs.Ray Ray Ray - can't we just love each other?Re-read my post, Ray.1. I did NOT lambast anyone. Go back and read it again.2. The real clique you speak of exists: it is a conglomerate of multi-national Hamster/Gerbilized Quantum Accessible 55Gig Iodized-Encrusted Four-poster users who have a secret handshake and meet regularly to make fun of people from Cheshire. 3. All members are created equal, except for those less equal than others.4. Ray, you seem like a relatively intelligent Chesherite, why would you defend members who cannot READ?5. You may choose to move on to the next message. I choose not to.6. This is number 6.7. Humour. Look it up like you did for fatuous. I fear you may be missing some.Kind regards,Your loving doppelgangerDShuttPS Hamster/Gerbilized Quantum Accessible 55Gig Iodized-Encrusted Four-poster users DO NOT make fun of Ray, he's okay.DS CVA3339 / UKD149System: Attlon 900 McW Hamster/Gerbilized Quantum Accessible 55Gig Iodized-Encrusted Four-poster with Mega-brill Farzenhuuven http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

"It's beyond rude to jump all over someone who BRAND NEW over something as trivial as posting a question.Were this the 2nd or 3rd post he's made on this topic I could understand the frustration, also if he were a forum regular."Hi Howard,My post was not intended as the opening shot in a debate on forum etiquette. I was just trying to point out where the frustration at this type of repeat posting comes from.Actually Decision Height did post twice

Slam dunk!

Allow me to tell you about the motivation of DShutt, 856, Murf, and other's that you may think are too strong with objections to the repeated "patch" questions.If you have been around here a while, a couple of years, you would have shared the pain over the FS2002 patch issues that DROVE the PIC team away from participation in this forum. That is part of what that story, A Long Time Ago ..., I wrote was reminding people about. Those were nasty times people. As we sit here in July/August of 2003 and privately pray that those guys will patch or update PIC, we see the EXACT same pattern emerging that caused all the trouble 18 months ago.There is a reasonable hope for something to come about for FS9. But the building trend of impatience has many of us VERY nervous and sometimes quick-tempered. The PIC team is obviously well aware of out thirst for a patch or upgrade. If they are being silent about their plans (good or bad) it is for good reason. If you can't understand that, you still have to accept it. I have always figured "no news" is better than "bad news". And do not be too surprised that