I know there are a lot of you out there that do not fly on-line. And, I understand the issues many have with it. They range from bad internet connections and complicated software setups to intimidation and lack of understanding of how it all comes together. And I suppose some would rather stay in their own world with "their" traffic. For me, flying on-line has completely changed my appreciation for this hobby. Without the ability to link to the rest of the world, I would spend about one tenth the time and nearly all of the excitement would be gone as Flight Sim would become just a game.If any of you who do not currently fly on-line would like to give it a try, there are several of us on this forum that would be most happy to help you out. All you have to do is say "help". You will not regret it.So what do you say, how about flying with "our" traffic for a change?Mike

Hi Mike,It seems to be a good idea. What excatly do you propose? to meet at a given time at location X for a flight from X to Y? Or do you suggest a kind of question & reply training on this forum?I had an idea not too long ago but never came to it. This was to post on this forum (or another one for that matter) a complete description of an online flight from X to Y ie:The pre flight preparation: how the flight plan is made, with which programs or from which sources. What charts are needed for the flight. How is the plan adapted to the plane I fly (usage of FSBuild or others), how it is exported to the right folders. Then the plane loading of PAX, fuel calculation with which programs and where are the results going to be saved/inputed. What software is going to be used, in what order and for what purpose FS, Servinfo, Whazzup, Weather program, squawkbox etc... Then the launching of the simulator, choice of location and plane, setup of the cockpit, FMC programming, wheater program etc.The squawkbox connection, its preparation when connected.A complete written tape of all dialogs between the pilot and the ATC's so that a new user can follow and understand each single instruction. I beleive it is an important part for a good understanding of terminology and accurate respons of the pilot.An accurate list of the implementation of the instructions given to the ATC in the cockpit ie how and what needs to be done when an instruction is received.I surely left aside a lot of other topics which may be useful to a beginner. If you want we could join forces and try to make such a guide book (I hate the word tutorial). Or is your idea totally different? and I am once again on the wrong course....What do you guys think?Michael

I want to fly online!!! After doing over 500 hrs in the 767 I still have not done it. My reason, not really know the right things to say and flying SIDS and STARS. As of now I let the FMC get me close and take care of the desent, then if need be I make adjustments to get lined up for which runway I need to go to.But I really need to learn this and be online. I can take the training from my VA but I EST and their GMT so 5 hours makes a big difference when trying to get together.Brian

Wow Michael, what a grocery list of ideas. That is sort of on par with the VATSIM program we are undertaking,http://simsource.net/files/MB327/V_PTO.htmhttp://simsource.net/files/MB327/V_PT_P1.htmWhat I was really looking for at this point is "who" among this forum community would be interested in breaking away from computer generated traffic and getting on board with our environment of real people piloting the other traffic and being controlled by a real person watching a realistic ATC radar screen. If the number responding is small, we would tailor the response to the specific need. There are a lot of people that frequent this forum that have more simulating skills than I do so I expect the learning gap is small within this group.Nearly all of the things on your list are on our list to develope. The only exception being usage of FSBuild and aircraft specific training. If you are serious about committing the time and energy required to help put it all together, please email me and I would be happy to discuss.Thanks for stepping up and responding,

Thanks for responding Brian. You are not alone. All of us who have been flying on-line, no matter how many years and hours, were totally blank at one time.In your case, there are a few things to study before getting to software and connectivity issues. For starters, go to http://vatsim.net/links/links12.html and print out the quick start guides for flying "Departures", "SIDS", and "STARS". Also have a look at http://www.computerpilot.com/files/aoifstar.PDF as it is an excellent training aid with pictures that explains how to fly a STAR. For all practical purposes, SIDs are the same except you are climbing. ;) Now for the part about what you "say", visit http://www.vatsim-uk.org/Pilots/pilottrain...ce/usingvox.asp which is on the VAT-UK training website and was written by our good friend David Tidwell. There is a link on that page for a downloadable sample of ATC and pilot communication.Then we need to talk about basic requirements such as obtaining clearance, when it's required and where to get it. After that, we get into the flow of communicating with ATC. The best way to do that is by getting on an ATC voice channel and "listening". I made a reference on next Saturday's flight out of Kenya up to Tel-Aviv for anyone wanting to do that to contact me by private chat during the flight. http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=set...how_topic#20666 I will provide you with the voice IP information. All you need is a properly configured Roger Wilco http://www.vatsim-uk.org/Pilots/pilottrain...Voice/roger.asp which is free. Also http://www.hawarden.org.uk/ is an excellent new site that is being developed by Andy King. You may have to adjust your browser per the instructions but once you get into the site click on the "Enter" to the Hawarden Virtual Airport UK. From there, select the "New Pilots" dropdown window and select "Flash Tutorials". Click on the "Roger Wilco" button on the left pane. Andy did a fantastic job with these training aids, he not only shows you how but talks you all the way through it.Use Roger Wilco not later version than MkId3 (they are incompatible) for voice. This is the most stable version :http://www.vatsim-uk.org/download-files/rw...2_mk1c_mod1.zipMake sure you set it up for SLOW MODEM connection regardless of your actual connection speed.

MikeMost of what you listed I already have, since my VA is BAV and home base is EGLL I have the charts for it, SB is already on my puter as is roger wilco (although these my need updated) I was looking at the SID and STARS last night for EGLL, doesnt seem a problem, but everytime I put them into the FMC it adds more than 100NM to my flight plan. I use FSBuild 1.4 for flight plans. And Dispatcher 3.0I have been online once, many moons ago, asked for and got ATIS, but after that I was not sure of myself and ended the flight :/ So I guess thats where I really stand.Brian

Brian, SIDs and STARs are just waypoints, not unlike the others in your flight plan. If you are getting a wierd addition to the length of the flight, try entering the SID or STAR point by point rather than a one entry method. Many times the procedure files are not accurate and give unexpected results. Just look at the chart and enter the points you need to cross along with any crossing restriction.For the part you mention about not being sure of yourself once connected, the best thing you can do is listen to voice ATC and later watch the text exchanges where the controller is text only. Be sure to read the voice training aids I linked above and hit me up on AIM when we do the Safari flight so I can give you the frequencies to listen in on.Mike

Brian,There are special aviation shops in every country where you can get real world pilot stuff etc.I bought myself a complete set of RT(radio telephony) training once (we are talking 6 CD's here! =O ) and it helped tremendously in building "selfconfidence".If I only could have an F/O sometimes...;)

OK I see now. Just did EGLL-EGCC useing the Compton SID (RWY 9R) Learned 2 very important things, 1. Read the charts. 2. Put my glasses on LOL.OK SIDS and STARS just might not be a problem, just gotta know which one to use for which runway, I just figured that the ones that came up in the FMC were all useable for the runway that was entered. Now I know better.Brian

if anybody needs a chaperonne,give me a pm,or attack me on vatsim(asa462/ml898/rag462),i'll be happy to collect the punches ;-)and fly with you....sometimes it's easier when you can follow someone.oh...text only,regrettably...groeten

Hi Brian,For help with voice training(in the UK), download the official manual of voice communication, CAP 413 Radiotelephony Manual here:http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.pdf It's clearly presented, and is full of helpful examples.Frank

The first thing that kept me from flying online for many months was this SIDS/STARS everyone was talking about. I just didn't see how a single pilot could fly a departure procedure or arrival exactly according to the charts. Impossible. Then I practiced it offline and realised how easy it was. Of course the FMCs on the Dreamfleet and PIC helped as well, but I got so good at it, that I would fly it by hand just following the flight director cues, and when I really wanted a challenge, I'd use the VORs and OBIs.The second thing is communications. That wasn't such a show stopper for me for one simple reason: Since I was 12 (I'm 30 now) I have been using scanners to listen to ATC. I also used to live exactly 5NM on the final for Runway 27R into KMIA. So I got everything. Often I would ride to the threshold of 9L with a bicycle and listen/look at the guys comming in/taking off. After listening to VATSIM atc once, I realised that it was basically the same thing. That's how amazingly real it is.If any one of you are a little nervous about ATC and sounding "silly" online then get yourself a scanner or even better, do a google search for sites that let you listen to live ATC from the internet. Listen and learn.......and in no time you'll be ok.Online flying is too great to miss.Lagaz.

PMFJI Mike,For all the pilots considering taking up Mike's challenge you have been given plenty of links to excellent resources.First thing you need of course is a VATSIM ID, just join at the main VATSIM site.If you can fly competently off line then with little effort your on line experience should have you hooked.If you are 'mike shy' then do as has been suggested. Read/listen to the voice tutorials and then find a reasonably busy airport that has ATC (use ServerInfo to find one). Before joining the Vatsim session park up out of the way in the default Cessna, not on a runway or taxiway, say on the grass well away from runways and taxiways.In your flight plan use the airport you are parked at as origin and destination airport.In the remakrs box put 'No flight,learning ATC, student pilot'. That way ATC know they can ignore you and concentrate on a/c flying.Sit there and listen to ATC and watch. if you have followed the vocie tutorials it should all fall into place.When you do start flying put in the remarks box 'Student pilot' or 'Newbie' so ATC know you may need a bit of help.As Mike says, there are plenty of on line pilots here happy to help you, if any of you feel i can help privately feel free to email me or send a msg via the forum private mail. All i ask is that if you do email me please indicate in the subject line it is to do with Vatsim otherwise your email may end up in the same place as those offering me Viagra :-lolIf I can stay awake I hope to join the PICers on the BBall special.BCA01Training CaptainBritish Charter Airlines

Hi Brian,For routing in and out of EGLL go to Geoff Butler's Flight School here:http://www.avsim.com/geoffschool/combined/index5.htmThen choose, Heathrow Departure Routes or Arrival Routes to Heathrow.These pages should enable you to always pick the most appropriate SID/STAR.By the way, this is an excellent site, with much other useful information, as well.FrankPS One quick way to find the correct SID when flight planning is to load each one in turn into the FMC, step through the waypoints on the EHSI, and then pick the SID which seems most logically to tie in with your enroute. Not always correct, but a reasonably good general guide.

Thanks Frank I have had the info just never really looked through it. I am useing all the material from VATSIM-UK the stuff Adam Spink wrote and its helped me out a lot. Practicing the SIDS and STARS now. Next will be voice comms.Brian