Brian,Avoid one of the major pitfalls of new VATSIM members. Do your first few flights at smaller airports. Heathrow is one of the most complex and confusing places for a new VATSIM member to deal with. Good advice would be to sort out the on-line communications and expectations at a location where the controller can give you a lot more latitude.Mike

Further to Mike's post:Fly something like:EGPF/EGPH to EGGW/EGSSNormally these airports will be staffed, without some of the more complex procedures associated with EGLL.Also, there is normally an approach controller on, who will give you vectors etc onto the ILS.

OK question, I noticed on the STARS that (at least EGLL)it doesnt really line you up for a runway, so will a controller vector you off from the Star to a course that lines you up for an approach?Brian

Depends on the STAR in question.Most STARs do not specifically line you up on a final approach course. Depending on weather, traffic, ATC, and aircraft requirements, a landing runway will either be selected by the pilot (in the event of no ATC) or ATC will assign an arrival runway and a specific type of approach (i.e. visual, ILS, LOC DME, LOC Back Course, or the worst thing you want to hear, an NDB approach). If you are without ATC, you decide at which point to depart the STAR on headings or direct to approach fix points to intercept the final approach course. If you are flying with ATC, expect the controller to provide either vectors for final, or a call to proceed to a fix that sets you up for final approach. In the case of a visual approach, you will be sent on a heading that should allow you to see the field and then fly the visual approach and land after ATC has cleared you for the "visual approach rwy ??".On instrument approaches, you will be directed to a heading, or series of headings and altitudes to descend to (you might also get directed to a fix point) that will set you up on an intercept heading for the runway. It is then up to you to actually make the intercept and turn to final after being cleared by ATC for the specific instrument approach you were assigned.I hope that makes some sense.

Short answer is yes Brian, provided you use 'real' ATC, in other words Vatsim :-). I guess the in built ATC would have you on vectors long before the end of the STAR.A lot of UK airport charts are like this but if you look at other charts for the same airport you can often find charts that continue the STAR into a particular runway - for use when ATC comms fail.Quite often on Vatsim a controler will take you off a STAR at some point, just follow their instructions and ignore the STAR you have programmed and the STAR chart.HTH

Thanks man.Brian

a Bill's radio show motivated BUMP

OK so I did my first online flight, after about 8 hours of getting things to work right. Well........LOL I am just not real impressed, Guess because there was no ATC. Well there was at the begining but he quit. It was a short flight EGLL-EGCC. Now that I know how everthing works and how to get it running I am hopeing for a good flight sometime with some good online ATC. Brian

Hi Brian,>I am just not real impressed, Guess because there was no ATC.

Well only one person took up the offer in 9 days. This suggests that the reason some of you do not fly on-line is the 5th possibility I listed in the opening post. That is actually the answer I was wishing for because the last thing I would want to see is that people were staying away because they thought the other four reasons applied to them. For anyone changing their mind and wanting to give it a try, do not hesitate to ask for help in getting set up and up to speed. Help is only a post away.

Just talking about VATSIM. I'm beginning US/CA flights (something new after Europe). Does anybody knows where I can find a crash course about the differences between both? I found a nice one about Russian and the rest of Europe differences but I really want one about US.Of course I can always use European Phraseology and expect that the controller can decipher. ThanksJos

First of all, here are the valid altitudes for cruise in the US and "part" of Canada. The remainder of Canada (above 57 degrees north is RVSM, same as Europe)http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/37443.txtIf you are in Europe, Russia, North America, or ANYWHERE, always remember that you should NEVER accept a clearance that you do not understand or that you are unable to fly. Whatever the reason, no charts, are not equipped to navigate to a waypoint, just out-right do not understand what the controller is saying, DO NOT READ BACK a clearance you can

Just to add to the flow of information, this place contain a great source of how-to

ThanksJust want to confirm several things:Rwy alignment: Do the controller expect a "Full ready to departure in the hold short" to issue a "clear for T/O"?Is the step climb ICAO format used in FP?Is the cross Rwys forbidden except with clear controller clearance as in Europe?The FP use the semi circular FL or there is airways odd even rule like in Europe?Are the SID/STAR extensively used or can I request vectors (much nicer if you are using CIVA ins :) )ThanksJos

>Rwy alignment: Do the controller expect a "Full ready to>departure in the hold short" to issue a "clear for T/O"?Squawk normal when approaching hold point and ready to go then call "(callsign) holding short rwy ##">Is the step climb ICAO format used in FP?You can file that way if you like, I try to keep it simple though and normally only file my initial cruise level>Is the cross Rwys forbidden except with clear controller>clearance as in Europe?If you are starting up and have been cleared to taxi to your departure runway, you are clear to cross all runways unless specifically told otherwise in your taxi clearance. The same goes for taxi after landing, once cleared to taxi to gate you are cleared to cross all runways. "to the gate, three-two-seven"If instructed otherwise, to hold short of a runway, you need to give enough readback to confirm you understood the call from the controller. "Charlie, hold short runway 26, American three-two-seven">The FP use the semi circular FL or there is airways odd even>rule like in Europe?http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/37443.txt>Are the SID/STAR extensively used or can I request vectors>(much nicer if you are using CIVA ins :) )You can indicate "No Charts" in your FP comments. If the controller requests you depart on a SID or arrive on a STAR, advise "unable, no charts on board". You can get by with that in nearly every case, but you will not escape the occasional amendment to your flight plan. If the controller's request is not understood, ask for clarification or even request it on "text". The important thing is never to half-a$$ed read back a clearance that you do not fully understand and are not prepared to fly. Again, get it on text if you have to.Ian Elchitz gave a great example of that a while back where ATC calls for a complex set of instructions including altitude restrictions and the pilot reads back "OK, direct thing-a-ma-bob and clear wherever". You actually here that sometimes if you fly on line long enough. While that is an extreme example, anything remotely resembling it is not acceptable.