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AVSIM Staff:Not only can we hardly present a dissenting view in here anymore, but now you take it upon yourselves to decide where our messages should be placed!? Maybe we want as many people to see it as possible, hence the preference for posting in the General Forum: More exposure, more replies, more peoples' opinions. Why should you guys decide what is an appropriate topic for a post? So long as it's within the guidlines of taste, decency and politeness, why do you care? It's very frustrating as I've not been able to locate the last three posts I've made to the GENERAL Forum. Alex CN562ZKMSP - Minneapolis

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If they were moved it means they were NOT about MS Flight Simulator. The reason we have different forums, and many at that, is to make it clear for readers (and posters) where to find content and discussions that interests them.It's a matter of point of view I guess, but we don't feel we should have only one big forum where all messages go into. Hence the distribution by topic, sim, product and group.If you post a message that has to do with MS FS in general, then we will surely not move it elsewhere :-)________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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I rarely come to this forum to talk about anything but MSFS. Enough said. See L Adamson's post in the hangar caht forum. This will become a sore point here, I'm sure.Alex CN562ZKMSP - Minneapolis

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I can normally understand that - although I do find it hard sometimes to understand why any critic of PSS is completely shut down in this forum when they make MSFS product. That is not just from today's experience but from day 1 when I have been here....

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Why?Because you're guests in our house, that's why. :) We ask you to follow the house rules: post MSFS related stuff in the MSFS forums, and post "off-topic" stuff in the Hangar forum. --M

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MattI hate to get 'political', but that "...guests in our house" comment sounds pretty arrogant to me.Without us "guests", you'd have no "house" for us to visit.....Chill!!Toni.

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Toni,<>I'm sorry to say this but I think you're the one being arrogant. The providers and administrators of this forum have invested a lot of time and money to give us a chance to voice our opinions on FS-related issues. It is their forum and they make the rules.I don't think they're asking much but if you feel you can't stick to their requests there is always the other place. If you can log in of course!

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Yup.... I feel another 'move' coming up.... ;-) :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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I'd have to correct that.... we WOULD have a house..... :-)Only with less visitors. And a lock on the gate.But to set things straight here, we (the AVSIM staff) are all in here for fun, to share our hobby with the thousands of other people around the globe. That's first and foremost.However, the way we run this guest house is along the rules set by the owner, who basically likes everybody to visit his private property and share in the fun... as long as you don't trample the flowers.When we all agree on that, no problem at all. For those that do not agree, no problem either.... only the gate will be locked. ;-)And you know guys, I have this T-shirt in mind with the text on the back: "I'd rather be simming ! ". In stead of having these kind of senseless and repeated discussions in here in the middle of the night.I'd better say FS2002 here, otherwise I'd have to move this thread as well... or one of my colleagues might... :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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Like Toni said, no guests = no house! We are the ones who have helped make this house what it is over the years, not to mention contribution$.This MSFS forum has been my first place to visit over the past few years. If it can only be used to relate with just MSFS topics and not a combination of real life, real piloting, and MSFS; then it will certainly loose a lot of appeal to me, and others I'm sure. I've enjoyed this AVSIM forum because it does (or at least did)combine real life along with simulating it. And wouldn't you know it, I'm a real pilot who also enjoys simulated flight. Now the moderators seem bent into forcing these two items into seperate camps. The purpose of MSFS is to simulate real life flight. It's not simulating R/C, boats, or Combat which can have their own forums. I don't care to go to the Hangar forum to discuss anything that's real instead of simulated. A real BUMMER!!L.Adamson

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RayI have no argument with the Forum rules and fully appreciate the necessity for them.It's not so much what Matt said that got to me - it's the way he said it.I think it's a great shame that not many wish to post at the Hangar Chat forum as it's not very well read, but the idea behind the separate forums is of course very sound.Maybe threads like this one will make readers aware of the other forum and encourage them to visit it. But that'll only happen in time and with more publicity so please, Francois, don't move this thread over just yet..... :-outta Toni.

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I thought i should chime in on this. First, i clearly see the reason why there are two different forums. The logic is sound. but the fact is that the hangar chat forum gets nowhere near the same kind of readership as the msfs forum. Not too far back i created a thread on US Airways going bankrupt, in which i asked what the impact of the decline of commercial aviation would be to MSFS but that was considered off topic. When the topic was in the MSFS forum it got up to 20 post and was on fire, but when it went to the hangar chat forum it only got two more post and then died away, and there was plenty to talk about with AA cutting 7000 jobs and UA discussing bankrupcy. While i wholeheartedly appreciate why there is seperate forums, maybe moderators should show a bit more flexibilty before deciding to move a post. After all we are human and we cant always go down the line when it comes to rules like this. I know the mods dont want the MSFS forum flooding with unrelated posts but then certain topics that do catch interest should be left as is, maybe even placed in both forums?just my cents

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<>It just goes to show the last time I went over there then! :-) Thing is, when you're happy at a site there's no need to wander off elsewhere.Cheers,

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Tony,<>The Post button is very powerful and should be used with care. I'm not pointing any fingers here but sometimes when a topic is a bit contentious it's a good idea to pause before replying. That rule has helped me on more than one occasion :-)I must admit to never having posted in the Hanger. Then again, I rarely post new messages preferring instead to add my six penneth when I feel I can help and sometimes when I feel I have to respond to what has been posted.Agreed, this thread needs to stay around for a while. Plenty of mature discussion is no bad thing!Cheers,

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Yep, get "anal" AVSIM Moderators/Admins. What difference does it make if an interesting post is made here that is not exactly on topic? Like LAdamson said, it's the first place that he visits, and so it is with most people, I would guess. And if that's the case, why would you want to have people "jump around" to find those interesting topics? Other than it being "your house," and wanting to set your own rules just to be restrictive or authoritative, why not give the people what they want? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain from doing so it would appear.Absolute "power" corrupts absolutely.

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>However, the way we run this guest house is along the rules >set by the owner, who basically likes everybody to visit his >private property and share in the fun... as long as you >don't trample the flowers. Francois,You

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I've read and contributed to the "parallel thread" on this topic currently going on in the Hangar Chat forum. Of course the irony is that the bifurcation of this discussion between two forums makes it much more of challenge to follow, and should provide some indication that the policy of moving general interest threads to where they are deemed to belong is probably less than pragmatic.My view is that anyone in a decision-making position faces two approaches--the philosophical and the pragmatic. Philosophically it might appear perfectly logical to insist that everything belongs in its rightful place; in practice, though, a lot of people will simply not read these redirected threads. I know I'm as unlikely to visit the Hangar Chat forum here as I am to check in on the "Outer Marker" (general interest) forum at Flightsim--and it has nothing to do with "laziness" as has been suggested; it has to do with personal interests and preferences, and time management.

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Paul,But the fact is that you did go into the Hangar Chat forum, you did read the messages, and you did contribute. Good for you.So, let's hypothesize.If people want to allow any message, and as Francois says, open one giant everything's allowed forum, then everyone should be able to post anything without consideration of forum topic.So then, why do we not have all the X-Plane and FUIII posts here as well, asking questions, making points, making comparisons to MSFS?Because those people are summarily thrown out and those posts are immediately deleted. The flame wars just simply wouldn't end. Not only that, the forum would be unreadable. One would have to hunt everywhere to find anything about one topic - like Microsoft Flight Simulator.What's the difference between those and posting about aviation in general, or bankruptcies, or whatever isn't MSFS related? There is none, except the general populace has decided that since this is the FS forum, that's all that should be here. Not X-Plane. Not FUIII. Not any other sim, even if all other topics appear to be acceptable. But they aren't. They are exactly the same. They are taking away from the ease of finding information about Microsoft Flight Simulator.One cannot differentiate between sims and other non-FS related topics. It's either one or all. That's why there are different forums.It would be akin to putting every program and file you own into one directory, named "Windows" - without subdirectories. Everything just dumped into that one giant directory. Why have multiple directories and multiple drives and multiple partitions? Dig around Windows to find your pictures or your browsers, or your accounting data, or your anything. Even the most primitive computers like the Apple &r;&l; had directories to separate out everything - then partitions when the first hard drives came out.Why is it any different to differentiate subjects in separate forums? You wouldn't put everything you own into one directory, and you wouldn't post here about how great X-Plane is.

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ScottIn principal, what you're saying is right but things are not that 'black and white'. Here's a simple example:As some may know, quite a few times I have posted threads here on the MSFS forum regarding PT and his antics, firstly to keep people informed about the situation and also to 'warn newbies' so that they might not suffer as many others have.The reasons for posting here are simply that here is where the majority of readers are (and of course, you want the threads read by as many people as possible), and as other threads have been started here, here is where the replies to those contributions are going to be posted (obviously).Recently however, threads/discussions regarding Tishma have been 'moved' to the Hangar Chat forum because, according to Francois, they're off-topic and therefore no longer belong here.But Tishma only 'produces' for MSFS and people wanting help or advice regarding their problems with him/his 'products' come to this forum, not Hangar Chat. So where are the lines drawn? In this example I would say that the MSFS forum is the right place for these matters to be aired, not just because of the volume of readers, but because the issues specifically relate to MSFS and it's users. The Moderators, however, seem to disagree.As a reader suggested before, maybe there should be a new specific forum for discussions about 'rogue traders' but here is still the first place people will look...Toni.

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Francois,Perhaps the dissenting users are right. Therefore I propose, to help people find the topics they are interested in, that AVSIM rename the forums as follows:MS Flight Simulator General Discussion and Other Topics ForumMS Combat FlightSim and Other Topics DiscussionThe FLY General and Other Topics Discussion ForumThe Flight Unlimited Series and Other Topics The X-Plane and Other Topics Forumetc...

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I just saw a post where someone asked if you could couple the autopilot to an NDB. Following the rules this should have been removed. If we apply those rules to anything we will all miss a lot of interesting stuff here.Alex

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What about a forum to discuss forum managment :)Anniette xxxxxxx

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