Actually, it's VERY common that they use VORs.

WOW! I never started a thread this long before. :)As others have stated, I do not mind the lack of FMS or TCAS in SB3 as I don't use either of these now. I usually fly with commercial addons that have one or both of these in the panel. It's also good to hear that SB3 will run from within FS2K2 as opposed to an external program, (I hate alt-tabbing). My biggest hope for SB3 would be to see an end to the jerky plane movements of the other MP aircraft. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the SB software or the servers. It would be nice to see the aircraft land without disappearing into the ground and popping back out again 50 ft in the air.All shorcomings aside, flying online is fantastic and it's the only way I fly!Regards,

Actually, it's neither. It's related to the fact that it just isn't practical to send position updates more than once every 5 seconds. The SB3 developer is working on ways to improve it but there are some limitations that just won't go away.

Richard,I thought the jerkiness in MP a/c was a Microsoft flaw inbedded into the program itself and nothing to do with SB?Eric

"the fact that it just isn't practical to send position updates more than once every 5 seconds."And in between these 5 second updates the program projects/calculates the position of the other aircraft assuming a constant vector, i.e. constant vertical speed, airspeed and heading as recorded in the last update. This is why you see aircraft dipping below ground level on finals etc. The program simply projects them flying along the glidelope, until the next update arrives showing them level on the runway.Stamatis

Richard,Just so you and the team know members response to the news of the new SB, like James I have concerns over SB becoming a module.I too fly on line with 2 PCs so that one PC can just handle FS and nothing else.With the current version of SB we can run 2 PCs with Widefs and keep FS seperate from all other programs and thus help FS run smoother.I appreciate those running 2 PCs can use the existing version of SB but will we miss out on new features of the new version of SB?I would not have thought any new version of SB would have no impact on PC resources and thus contribute to less resources for FS.There is also the question of the SB window intruding into the cockpit view.I am not a programmer so have no idea of the differences between SB being a module or a seperate program but I would ask the team to consider keeping SB as a seperate program or at least having that option...if a all possible.Regards

"the fact that it just isn't practical to send position updates more than once every 5 seconds."I guess that makes sense as it would probably bog down the servers to send continuous updates.While I have been flight simming for quite sometime (SubLogic Flight sim on a TRS-80 Model 1), I never flew online until FS2K2. Now I always fly online. VATSIM has greatly added to my enjoyment of this hobby. The developers of this software deserve a heart-felt thank-you for the time it must take to bring this technology to us.:-beerchug

Vulcan,No, my understanding is that it's pretty much a done deal that SB3 will be a module. If you want to run it on a second PC, you'll have to continue to use 2.3.5. That's not going away and will continue to be supported. The issue is one of having trouble drawing in the FS window as an external program.cz

Well, it's probably related to the MP implementation in FS but there's also the issue of the rate of position updates. As Stamatis rightly points out, if the aircraft remains in unaccelerated flight for the entire 5 seconds, it should be possible for FS to interpolate the positions smoothly. The problem is, I think (and I'm not a FS internals guru), that FS wants to see updates more frequently than once every 5 seconds.

"The issue is one of having trouble drawing in the FS window as an external program."But I thought that part of the benefit of running SB in a separate PC is not having to draw in the FS window...I am definitely nothing near to being a programmer but I believe that all that is required of SB to satisfy Vulcan's needs is the ability of SB to communicate via WideFS. No other change is required, like the ability to draw in the FS window etc.But of course I amy be 100% wrong in this.Stamatis

Stamatis & Richard,Like you Stamatis I am not a programmer so would not have a clue what what was involved but I bet Pete Dowson does:-) All I know is Pete's documentation for Widefs states that it allows programs written for FS98 to work with later versions of FS so maybe that FS98 'thing' would prevent the new version of SB to be run in the same way as V2.3.4Again I have no idea if Pete looked at the inner workings of SB to make it work with Widefs or if there was some collaboration between him and the SB program team.Richard,If it can't be done so be it, just hope I don't miss out on any goodies because I will stay with running 2 PCs for on line flying.Many thanks for the reply Richard and many thanks to you and the network team for keeping such a wonderful resource running and available for us 'wannabes' :-) :-beerchug

I don't know if this happens to any of you, but when I switched from FS2000 to FS2002, the MP a/c started doing something really weird: after each position update, the a/c will begin to move forward per the interpolation routine, but then it will suddenly jump back to the exact position where the position update occurred, and then sort of jump back and forth at that point (almost like it's stuck). Then, 5 seconds passes, and the next position update occurs, the a/c moves to the new position, and whole process starts over.Anyone else have this?James