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MarkW

ATC Communication Question

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Pilot: "Toronto Ground, Air Canada 123 requesting IFR clearance to Miami"YYZ_V_GND: "Air Canada 123, clearance on request"OK, now what? Usually there is a long silence before I hear the ATC ask if I am still on line. What is the information being communicated and how should the pilot respond. thanks for you help.Mark.

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Hi Mark:-) This definitely looks like a catch 22 to me. But I think the ATC wanted to tell you that he would give you your clearance when you stated ready to copy. If that was his intention the wording could have been better. Maybe:GND: "Air Canada 123, advice ready to copy clearance?"Usually (at least in Swedish virual airspace) the controller would ask:GND: "Scandinavian 526, Ready to copy clearance?"I*m just a layman though, so I could be totally wrong here. ;-)

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No, that's not what it means.The phrase "clearance on request" tells you that the controller is looking for your clearance. In the real world, it means he's digging for (or requesting from the computer) your strip. He's not reviewed it so he is not ready to read it to you. Implicit in this phrase is that you are to standby and wait for him to get back to you.He shouldn't be asking if you're still online, unless he's being way toooooo slow in getting back to you.cz

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totally wrong...lolWell at least I learnt something today!Maybe someone could point me to a good source for standard ATC phrases? I think I need some brushing up :-)

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Yeah it was definitely the controller in error there (possibly a newbie if this was a real incident involving a GND controller since that's typically where brand new ATC start out on VATSIM:Sould be:Pilot: "Toronto Ground, Air Canada 123 requesting IFR clearance to Miami"YYZ_V_GND: "Air Canada 123, clearance on request"**FOLLOWED BY**YYZ_V_GND: "Air Canada 123, clearance availiable, advise ready to copy."To which you reply:Pilot: Air Canada 123 ready to copy sir.and he reads you the clearance...

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Mark,Depending on the experience, skill level, and workload of the controller you should also be prepared for the clnc to be shot right back at you after you call without any "clearance on request" or "advise ready to copy" mumbo jumbo - so when you call for your clnc - BE READY FOR IT. I personally don't waste time with these transmission unless they are necessary. If I can't deal with your clnc right now due to workload (I might have another priority at that moment) or the need to reroute you you would probably get "Clearance on request" to which you do not need to respond, just sit tight. Some controllers will even say "Clearance on request - be ready to copy".Unless I made you wait longer than 120 seconds my next transmission to you will be your clnc, if greater than 120 seconds I *might* give you the heads up with "I have your clnc advise ready to copy" - though chances are that I will not do that - if you had to wait longer than 2 mins for your clnc there is a good chance that I'm too busy to waste that radio time .Example:Pilot: "Toronto Ground, Air Canada 123 requesting IFR clearance to Miami"YYZ_V_GND: "Air Canada 123, Cleared to Miami via the Pearson4 departure, Runway 24L, Flight Plan Route, Squawk 5012"Also Mark - Keep asking questions, there is so much to learn here on Vatsim, and so many who will gladly share the knowledge you seek.and Finally - HAVE FUN!Ian Elchitz CYWG

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in real life if you are contacting clearance delivery they will normally have you clearance available right away since that is their only job. if it is ground you are contacting there might be a delay since he has another job to do.

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To get even more into "real life"Nowadays I understand more and more airports are giving their clearances, and even slot times, on ACARS. You don't even have to talk to Delivery :-)

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>in real life if you are contacting clearance delivery they >will normally have you clearance available right away since >that is their only job.Whoah Nellie!!! I couldn't let that one go by...Having worked many years at CD, I'll also point out that depending on the tower CD is also responsible for:-Making hourly weather observations (if the field doesn't yet have an automated weather observing station, and if it does, augmenting the observations with remarks or other notes that the automatic equipment isn't able to detect, such as "tornado northwest"). -Passing PIREPs and field condition reports to the necessary facilities that need it.-If necessary, record the ATIS manually once an hour (or more often if necessary) with the weather information, and field condition information, and then pass that information to FSS and other relevant facilities.-Pass flight plan reroutes which come from Center on to GND or TWR for flights that have already picked up their clearance.-Pass delay times which have been imposed or adjusted on to either GND or TWR in the case of planes that have picked up their clearance, or record them on the strips if the planes haven't yet called.-Make the coffee. :)and a few others that I'll think of after I hit "send". :)

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Hmm, then why did I wait 8 minutes for my clearance from delivery at ISP yesterday...Must've been doing one of those things Jeff couldn't think of! :-)

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well that is my real life experience. maybe they do things differently in the US. in cyyc at 7am (busy time) i get my clearance right away. although i have flown into klas and waited over 1/2 hr for clearance. that is a long time to be burning jet fuel. those canadian controllers must be more efficient!(j/k). but like i said "normally" i get my clearance right away.

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Why would you be burning jet fuel before you have your clearance?Lee Hetherington (KBED)

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was in a turbine so it was like it was a JT-8 or something. the atis didn't notify us of delays so we didn't anticipate any. then we called clearance and DOH!. standby you are 20th for clearance.

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Hmm...most a/c won't spool up the engines until ramp control clears them for pushback.

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Or just:Pilot: "Toronto Ground, Air Canada 123 requesting IFR clearance to Miami"YYZ_V_GND: "Air Canada 123, cleared as filed, contact when ready to taxi"Which is what I'm usually getting :-)

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And at a busy airport they still have to clear 60+ aircraft per hour which requests are of course not nicely spread out but clumped together.

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You still had better wait starting engines until you have clearance. It COULD be denied or you might get told you have to wait a bit...Last month in Curacao I heard some pilots asking for clearance for their outbound leg while still taxiing to the terminal after landing. Talk about being in a hurry to get away again :-rotor

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Hi MarkI thought it might be useful to add some other insights for you.Unless your f/p is a no-brainer the controller will be reviewing itfor several things such as have you entered the correct ICAO codesfor departing and arriving airports, is your en route altitude proposed correct for the direction of flight (not always obviouson north/south routes - eg: miami is slightly west of toronto 80longvs 79 degress).Are there local preferred routings to add prior to your first waypointand so on.This is normally what he will be reviewing before deciding to ask you to ammend your f/p or clearing it as submitted. If he is not the GND or DEL controller he will be performing other ATC functions beforeadvising "clearance available advise ready to copy".As someone else mentioned earlier GND/DEL are often the positionsstudent controllers start up at and sometimes they need a bit of time to assess these issues.Hope this helps.

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