Hi,all these years, in this forum i have found many answers and many good tips and tricks reading all the threads.I know that here is the right place for Home Cockpit Builders to interchange ideas and find many goods for our hobby.But,..... as i can see, many times we ask for help and we are looking for information about things that other people had discuss before and they have found or not a solution before. As we may not reading all the threads everyday, we missed many of them and we re-post the same problems or questions. Also the search is not a good solution everytime. The problem is biggest when we post threads for FsBus freeware s/w, as many people use it and have many questions.The Proposal: Specific group exclusive for FsBus s/w.I had make a new Yahoogroup, that is easy to use it and share there topics about FsBus s/w and h/w (circuits, parts etc) problems.Yahoogroups offer mail delivery (every single mail, or digest format everyday, or web reading) and other fuctions as polls, space for files, pictures, links etc.In this way, we can have there all the information needed about FsBus users, from FsBus users (of course Dirk is welcome :-)!!! ), We can find information also about problems solved or any other problems that are pending. We may have there and share our setup and config files or photos and other information, that may help all of us. In the same time, Dirk will have a specific place to look for reports and information about FsBus and help us when have free time with his answers and emails.If you agree and believe that this will work, i'm ready with this new list and i can post here the new list link.best regards an FsBus user!!Eddie ArmaosAthens - Greece

Totally agree with you EddieI remember how long time waited fsbus manuals to be translated into english.Yes, joining a spesific fsbus yahoogroups will help us speed up our projects, as well as eliminate wasting time on troubled area.Good idea.Another fsbus userRemzi Ozturk

>Totally agree with you Eddie>>I remember how long time waited fsbus manuals to be translated>into english.>Yes, joining a spesific fsbus yahoogroups will help us speed>up our projects, as well as eliminate wasting time on troubled>area.Excuse my french, but no fscking way dudes. This is the wrong approach.A lot of the discussion on this forum is about FSBUS anyway. Dirk is here if needed, a lot of people help you on fsbus questions. If you now take the stuff there on some other forum, it is one topic less and one more thing scattered around the net.There was a similar thread about a specific 717 yahoo group, please, please please! I wrote the same there and I will repeat it: Our strength is in the co-operation and sharing of ideas. There are so many home cockpit forums around, and the sad fact is: only the avsim forum seems to have serious discussions, the others are pretty much dead and quiet, no matter how much one would wish them to flourish. Only those that serve a certain language group are more alive. There are just not enough people to sustain them all. Most of the active posters are the same people anyway. We are a *small group of people* folks. It makes no sense to split us up even more.So please, ask the FSBUS stuff here, we are trying our best to help you while learning ourselves.Tuomas

I completely disagree! (I agree with Tuomas)Recently there was a proposal to start a 737 group also, and I think the same thing apply here also.What is the point with having small enclaves of groups all over the web? It just adds more links to keep track of and more websites to go through.And if you take a look at the fsbus website, there is already two forums listed, one german and one english (this one!!!)I find that this forum gives me all the info I need, and responces are quick aswell. Just take a look at how many post about FSBUS have been posted lately.So IMHO I think it is pointless to have YET ANOTHER forum about this great hobby. Plz. gentlemen lets keep the good stuff centered in ONE PLACE.Best regardsPeter Skotte

Eddie..great idea...! HOWEVER, the risks exceed the benefits for the solution you proposed. As some folks have pointed out (even with some 'energetic' language ;) ) the actual community of sim builders is rather small. If we split the information pool into multiple sites, we lose the benefit of being able to look at the whole picture. All we will gain is the additional work of checking another site and trying to read through all the threads there...this doubles the work!My father always told me not to complain unless I have an alternative solution! So...The problem you bring up needs to be addressed...I agree that it is very hard to search for information on specific topics. I am not a forum idiot...but even when i type my own name in the search field, i only get 2 posts from 1 year ago!! Those who read my messages know that I am far more talkative than that! So...maybe it is the incorrect use of the search functions...or a problem with the search engine. Either way...let's work to make this a more effective forum, rather than just split out to a new one that is narrowly focused.Actions: 1. I will write to the forum moderator and see if there is something we are missing in the search function or a way to improve it.2. I will also see if there is a way to get a 'topic' breakout for the forum, so that people that want to see everything on '737s' or 'FBSUS' can go directly there. 3. Posting of files is a harder one. But I will also ask that question.I do believe that subscribing to a forum (see this option under your personal profile) allows you to get emails with recent messages. check it out.Finally...and this is for everyone...if ANOTHER forum host is a better provider of service for us, then we should consider MOVING THE ENTIRE FORUM somewhere else. This is a drastic action...but we are the consumers and our needs should be met...right?! Just let's not split up information.Ok...enough from me, I will report back with my findings from the actions above as soon as possible.Happy Building!

Since the opening of the 737 group over at yahoo there seems to be hardly any posts here from those guys and one builder who frequently used this forum to inform us of updates,post pictures etc has updated his visual system and didnt even write to tell us,let alone post any pictures.If we want to have a look we have to register. You open a new forum you take the talent with you.Gary

To tell you all (FSBUS users) Truth...I have nothing against FSBUS and I do notice that the idea of using FSBUS has been expanded among to cockpit builders. But, I do get tired of seeing someone posting help on bug, problem or some kind issue on Home Cockpit Builder forum. This forum is basically for someone who share their ideas or work on variety type of birds ie: structures of yoke, throttle, panel, and etc. I am EPIC users myself,If I have any questions on EPIC related, I'd post it on EPIC forum conferenece, not on this forum. So, Why don't someone (FSBUS Users) ask Dirk to set up forum conference for FSBUS related issues. Maybe this would be much help for FSBUS users Hopefully (non-FSBUS users) would agree with me

I have to agree totally with you Tuomas. While this is my first post ever in the forum. I do like to be able to come to this one forum and read about pitbuilding instead of searching around the web for this forum and that. Currently the only other forums I read for pitbuilding is the viperpit.org and the newsgroup for Project Magenta.I am still trying to decide if I am going to build a 777 or 737 pit. Currently I am leaning towards the 777. My pit is next to nothing right now, I have about 20 or so switches hooked up using a couple hacked USB gamepads. I have been looking hard at Leo's wonderful boards. I would really hate to see yet another point of view in this hobby move to another forum. Each time a segment of the small group of pit builders moves to their own forum we all lose.

You should do a real twin piston or turboprop instead of one of the nintendos ;)But seriously, like in real life, choose the plane type by the kind of flights you want and have time for. A 777 is for long-hauling, if you want to fly accross the atlantic and such, but for shorter, one-two-three-hour flights it makes sense to build a smaller plane.I mean you can do commuter hopping in a 777 home cockpit for sure but it is a bit silly if you want to aim for realism on the flying part too - the same applies in reverse of course. If you want long inter-continental flights, it needs to be a heavy iron./Tuomas

Eddie, I can see that what you have suggested is with good intention & you were only trying to make the FSbus discussions more efficient, while I agree it is hard to try & find something that you remember reading a month or two ago, we should keep the discussion here at this stage, Dirk has this forum listed on the main FSBus pages as the official english forum for FSBus, he monitors it & that is No.1 as he is the developer & needs our feedback.I think until Dirk suggests another forum or hosts his own support forum it should stay here, there is nowhere else however inefficient this forum may be, thats why the FSBus discussions have popped up here !There are many aspects to cockpit building, I like to read what different people are up to & how they are going about it, even if it is not how I am approaching it, there are many things to learn on the way & having a forum which covers all these different approaches keeps you with an open mind on how to tackle different problems, you may find yourself converting your pit to an epic system one day, there is always more than one way to skin a cat !FSBus is in development & we as the users of the system can play a vital part in it's development, stay together & help each other & most of all help Dirk, he has invested alot of time into this system & shared it freely with us, lets not forget that.Cheers Glenn.

> To tell you all (FSBUS users) Truth...I have nothing>against FSBUS and I do notice that the idea of using FSBUS has>been expanded among to cockpit builders. But, I do get tired>of seeing someone posting help on bug, problem or some kind>issue on Home Cockpit Builder forum. This forum is basically>for someone who share their ideas or work on variety type of>birds ie: structures of yoke, throttle, panel, and etc.> I am EPIC users myself,If I have any questions on EPIC>related, I'd post it on EPIC forum conferenece, not on this>forum. So, Why don't someone (FSBUS Users) ask Dirk to set up>forum conference for FSBUS related issues. Maybe this would be>much help for FSBUS users> Hopefully (non-FSBUS users) would agree with meHi RobertWell, I can't really see the harm in listing bugs and questions here.There is one essential difference between FSBUS and EPIC:EPIC is a commercial product sold by a company, whereas FSBUS is a free DIY solution, offered for free to the general HCB community, and frankly this is not the first time I read posts from EPIC users nagging a bit about FSBUS. Dont know why that is though?Yes I know you dont have anything against FSBUS, but reading between the lines...etc. I think Dirk has more than enough to do with writing the FSBUS code, so asking him to set up a forum for FSBUS would'nt be fair. And this forum is perfectly good for that. We all have to be here, and there is plenty of space, if one do not have an interest in FSBUS, then just skip the posts...it's not like it takes up space from other topics.I dont see anyware that this forum is for sharing ideas only???As the title states it's a "Home Cockpit Builders -> The Home Cockpit Support Forum"So can we plz. stop this discussion about splitting everyhting up, and keep this nice pool of knowledge in one place. Read the topics that are of interest to you, and skip those who aren't.Best regardsPeter Skotte

Yea, I apologize for my strong impression above but here's my point:Currently my bookmarks has these home cockpit sites:* FsNordic "Kotiohjaamot" - in finnish, locally active* AVSim Home cockpits - active (hey, it's us! :))* FlightSim Network Cockpit Builders forum - a *big* decline lately* Yahoo groups: "Construccion Cabinas" spanish and probably alive* SimFlight Network homecockpit forum is rather quiet* SimKits forum - commercial support thingy, product specific* FligtXpress german home cockpit forum - alive, local* www.simpits.org forum - last topic: "Im Begging You all, PLEASE REPLY"I think you see the problem. Even though home cockpits is gaining popularity, we are a *very* small and marginal group of people. Seriously. It does not make any sense to split stuff up. Local groups are good since then we can avoid the "hi, can you visit me to help with this?" -type things here on the "global" forum, but all in all it benefits us all to have the information available. Also, the sad fact is, a lot of people start with great enthusiasm, go on with a frantic rush and then, over time, get dragged on other things in life, and the websites never update etc. The number of us that are actively doing this for a long period of time is not very big. And those people are our real resource. It really is great to have folks like mr. Prather and the Deltaflight guys around, just to name two of you all. It gives this group the experience - and it is not just about "epic" or "fsbus" or whatever, but actual construction ideas, "dont do this like I did" advice etc.. how to do visual systems, wiring, etc.. we have guys that have tried several approaches and know what works. That's the big good thing in this forum. I dont care if it is "avsim" or "fsnordic" or whatever - the *people* make this forum special - a lot of experience around. Splitting that up would be just insane.If FSBUS support requests become an issue (which they probably arent, any more than any other newbie-asks-FAQ -type posts in any forum) then we could do this: Once someone asks a FAQ, we dont answer, but rather add the original answer to a FAQ thread and point the new user there..? Would that work? So there could be a FSBUS FAQ thread that just contained links to the actual threads with answers. I dont know if one can make sticky threads on this forum, but that would be useful if it is possible.Tuomas

Ok, I will try to say it again, as it was in my thoughts, in bullets.1) I don't want to split the fs-cockpit-builders forum, as i'm sure that here i can find many answers and i feel that all together, we make a new big virtual family.2) I don't want to replace Dirk's support, only to make an unofficial specific forum for fsbus users. I sent also an invation to Dirk about this new list, so he can decide what is the best for him and his s/w. If there is another suggestion from Dirk, is always welcome.3) Many people that they don't use FsBus, as Arthur Prather said, they may don't want to have such posts here in this forum.4) When the s/w is payware, the company had the responsibility to have support for customers (like PMDG, PM etc). Now as the program is freeware and we can't ask for online support from Dirk, i believe that a specific place where we can discuss about FsBus and have there all the information will help all FsBus users. 5) I believe that Avsim's forum does not offer the way to handle such things, like a knowledge base for us. I.E = A list with "To Do" things , or a list with current "Problems", or with setup files for PM etc. We can use the files, photos section in yahoogroups to store there infomration.We can use all this information as a good help from users to users, or if Dirk wants to handle by himself this yahoogroup. 6) I respect all your answers and opinions and i believe that the "big boss" of this is Dirk and i will respect his opinion. Just don't forget that my intention was just to help each other and make our circuits to work :-)Best RegardsEddie ArmaosAthens-Greece

In any case I think that a YahooGroup is the wrong choice (mostly because of all the ad crap). A forum type like avsim is much more preferrable. IMOBut I still don't think we should split things up just because we can.The MS forum here at avsim isn't split up either in for example AP threads and ILS threads and so on. It's kept under one roof.Best regardsPeter

>>There is one essential difference between FSBUS and EPIC:EPIC is a commercial product sold by a company, whereas FSBUS is a free DIY solution,<