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Guest Alkit

Projector talk

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Dear all,I am thinking to buy a projector for my sim cockpit. My room is not big, typical size in hong kong, about 9 ft x 11 ft. Is it possible to install a projector and get it display right in this small size?Could anyone give me some advice in choosing a good projector. My budget would be around $500 - $700. is it possible to buy one? I have zero knowledge about this thing. I look up on ebay and see something very cheap. But i doubt itWhat feature should I specially take care of?Is a used projector OK to buy?What brandname is good in quality?what brand name is good for price?Thanks for your help!!Alkit

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Hi Alkit,I have the Infocus X1, www.infocus.com that is 2000:1 contrat, 1100 lumes and more important, DLP technologie, 800x 600 SPVGA and XGA 1024x768. US$1000,00 www.bestbuy.com is the more better Quality/PriceSaludosRafaelMadrid (Spain)

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Dear Rafael,thank you for your information. Does projector also has resolution difference? what is the most popular resolution in the market now? 1024x768? 1280x1024?What brand name is good for projector? NEC? INFOCUS, CANON? Anyone, please comment.ThanksAlkitwww.alkit747.com

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About the small space you should consider using a mirror to cut the needed distance in half. A few of us (including myself) has built a solution with a projector that uses back-projection on a white sheet./ Ramsberg

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Alkit,Considering your limited budget and space I would suggest a Fresnel lens. You can get the best optical quality 25" x 19" lens (Edmund Optics - they ship with Fed-Ex) for $200. That lens will fit over a 19" CRT monitor. Add another monitor for instrument panel, and here you are with a nice setup - no resolution limits and no space limits and above all a nice 3D feeling.If you want more details I can send you pics and specs.have funSeevProcessor; AMD Athlon 64 - FX51Motherboard; Giga-Byte FA-K8NNXP-940, Dual Channel DDR400Memory; Corsair, 2 X 512 MB 400Mhz (total 1,024 MB)Video card; GeForce FX 5900 Ultra, 256 MB bufferHDD; Western Digital 200 GB, 7,200 RPM, 8 MB bufferCase; Thermaltake Xaser III lanfireSound card; Creative Blaster Live 5.1DVD burner; PioneerCRT Monitor; 17" for panel, CRT Monitor; 19" for view - with 25" x 19" fresnel lens (Edmund Optics)Home built Flight controller; Hagstrom card 72 operations, including 2 way flaps, 3 Goflight modules for a/p navigation and radio, 3 axis + 4 button controller for throttle and rudder,O/S; WIN XP

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If you want to project a large image you could also consider a used CRT Data projector. For around $700 you can pick up one which will still have thousands of hours left on the tubes with a lumens of around 650. There are no screen door effects or rainbow effects with CRT and they are what the pros use. The downside to these is there size and weight.CheersGaz

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hello RamsbergI always heard of using mirror. But I have no knowledage of it? Do you know any graphic which can show to me?best regards,Alkit

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Dear Seev,Please send me the drawing of the Fresnel lens setup. I want to take a look. Would it be harmful to our eyes when look at Fresnel lens display for long time? I mean compare with CRT or projector display. I still not decide which way to get the projection display work. Thanks.Alkit

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Dear Gaz,May I know how many types of projector are available for home use? I was looking at some website about it. It seems has LCD type, what are their different from CRT? Also, is the computer use projector different from the home threatre projector type?regards,Alkit

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Hi Alkit,The LCD and DLP projectors are alot smaller and lighter than CRT. They also now have a much brighter lumens than the CRT. The downside to the LCD and DLP projectors is that they rely on bulbs for the light output with an average life of 2000hrs. When buying one of these types its advisable to buy a replacement bulb at the same time because if 4-5 years down the track it blows you may not be able to find another one and end up having to replace the whole unit. Very costly if you have 3 of them. They also have a lower contarst ratio meaning that black will not be exactly black. For flight sim XGA resolution should be the minimum to consider.The CRT projectors use 3 individual tubes to create an image. The tubes generally last 10,000+ hrs. Because of this they are large and heavy, but produce a very good image quality with perfect blacks. Barco, NEC, Sony ,Runco, electohome, marquee, zenith , ampro and a few others can be bought relatively cheap these days.. Ive found that alot of the cheaper brands like ampro use sony tubes...the same tubes that would go into the more expensive barco and runco projectors. Im no expert on projectors by any means though.CheersGaz

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Thanks a lot for your suggestion Gaz.I went to some shops today and get some brochure back. Seems DLP is the top line projection technology. Higher constrast, higher lumen, more EXPENSIVE as well.I want to know, Is high lumen means can project better image when in long distance?If it is the case, is the high lumen factor still importantfor a small room?Low lumen projector is a lot cheaper than high lumen as i can see.Alkit

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Basicly the lumens count tells you how dark the room has to be to to project an image that wont be washed out by light. ie..... The lower the lumens output from the projector the darker the room has to be.If you have a room that only has a small window then its esay to put up a blackout curtain which will make the room very dark and project a very clear crisp image from any distance. If this is the case then the more expensive high lumens models are not necessary if your on a tight budget.CheersGaz

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Hello Gaz,Then I think I should spend more time in finding a suitable curtain instead of spending more in the very high lumen projector.What is the normal lumen? 800? 1500?Do small size projectors have any common disadvantages? bad heating problem?Alkit

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Average lumens these days is around 1000 but getting higher all the time. The contarst ratios on DLP is increasing also.Some of the Negatives are:-projectors run very hot as the bulb is in very close proximity to the main circuit boards-short bulb life (1000-2000 hours typically) but is increasing.-expensive bulbs ($300-$500 USD)-noticeable pixellation (LCD only) Deltaflight wrote about this in another post.-poor black levels-built as disposable units, you

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Alkit,I am using an NEC 150 DLP with excellent results in a 12X8 room. Under $1000 on EBay.To those of you using mirrors and a backlit display - can you post more info on how to do this? From the perspective of space this sounds like to way to go. My image is huge - almost too big, so I'll have to figure out how to make a large screen and curve it a little... backlight and mirros is a much better solution considering my space constraints.

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MirrorsI saw 2 waysFirst is shown on the pic. Nice and simple. Escpecially in smaller rooms.Method 2 is brilliant. It gives 180 degrees of vision with one beamer. If you click on the link you can see the movie made in the sim.http://members.chello.nl/p.leerentveld/simulatorflights.htmI read about this in "Piloot & Vliegtuig" , a dutch magazine (pilot and airplane). In the article was a small 3d drawing , how they did this.The beamer is at the same location as in method 1. But first it gets to a mirror that splits the emitted light in 2. The left part goes to a bigger mirror mounted to the left, and the right part to a mirror on the right. (3 mirrors in total). This second 2 mirrors bounce the light back to a 180 degrees curved sheeth (back projection).I think this is really the way to go. The video speaks for it self. In the future these guys are planning to commercialise this projection system.It seems very cheap to make. You only need one beamer and it looks even better than the systems I saw with 3 beamers.RegardsNorbert(http://home.wanadoo.nl/norbert.bosch

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Hello Gaz,Thanks for your advice. I think this can be a text knowledge in thid forum.DLP sounds really good in performance, but bad to pocket. Really pay to fly the simulator! I will see if I can afford it when I make the final decision.ThanksAlkit

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Hello Norbert,Thanks for your info.For my cockpit, it will be built inside my room, the front side will attach to the wall. I will put the projector at the top of shelf at the rear. Is there any method can make the projection like the link you shown in my room configuration? One projector for 3 sides-like projection (curve display). Alkitwww.alkit747.com

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.......... the front side will attach to the wall..........Well in that case you will get into troubles, you certainly need 2 to 3 meters I think.I just tried to scan the picture from the magazine I wrote about with the multimirror 1 beamer display system, but my scanner is not working anymore.So i made a rough sketch (not to scale). You will see the point of it in the pic.RegardsNorberthttp://home.wanadoo.nl/norbert.bosch http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/70239.jpg

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Its quite easy actually... Halfen the distance by mirroring the projection... :-)I use 2 bathroom mirrors fitted side by side on a wooden board. The bigger the mirror, the closer to the sceen it can be placed. I've drawn a quick sketch of what I mean. http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/69984.jpgHeh, nice portrait huh?The projector can be placed under or over the cockpit. It projects forward to the back of the screen and bounces back on the mirror to light up the back of the sheet. No more shadows from your head getting in the way :-)I use an ordinary bed sheet as a screen. You dont have to worry about the display getting reversed, because if you mirro it AND back-project the screen it takes out each other. Some construction, trying and invention apply :-)Cheers!/ Olle RamsbergSweden

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Very niceBut is it not difficult to find the good position of the beamers and the 4 mirrors to make the both side view accurate and to eliminate the positioning errors ?Do you try with experiment or calculate it ?BOB

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I do not have experience with this method (my project is not that far at the moment).As I wrote somewhere earlier in this thread:I read about this in "Piloot & Vliegtuig" , a dutch magazine (pilot and airplane). In the article was a small 3d drawing , how they did this.The beamer is at the same location as in method 1. But first it gets to a mirror that splits the emitted light in 2. The left part goes to a bigger mirror mounted to the left, and the right part to a mirror on the right. (3 mirrors in total). This second 2 mirrors bounce the light back to a 180 degrees curved sheeth (back projection).the link you can see the movie made in the sim.http://members.chello.nl/p.leerentveld/simulatorflights.htmLook at the movie at this link and you will be amazed. A normal baemer gives only a smal angle of view (have seen several movies of this on the net. This sim has a true 180 visual with ONE beamer. Unbelievable, This link is truly a must see.regards Norbert

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With this mirror splitting method, wouldn't you have the same in-sim FOV (field of view - front view of FS only), just on a wider plane? Not like using 3 sources to get a larger FOV, i.e. 45,0,45.

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