Lindy, obviously my opinion is in the minority. I don't object to a single bump (necessarily, but that is dependent upon the subject), but what gets my goat are the folks that do it three or four times. That's rude... and if encounter them, I will usually just delete the thread in its entirety.

With all respect Tom (as you deserve), thats pushing things way too far in my opinion. If people want to bump messages, what does it hurt you or AVSIM? Its not rude in the least - in almost all circumstances, its quite helpful actually.What your personal preferences are shouldn't make absolute public policy here: unless its obviously pathetic in the first place... And believe me I know, pathetic things happen all the time here, so I'm not discounting that by any means. But bumping messages most assuredly isn't one of them - its a widely and fully acceptable practice all across the internet for as long back as I can remember.I assume you're lashing out because of all the crap thats flown your way in the past month and more. I *am* sorry that you've been through that... But tightning the noose as a response so tight that "bumps" get frowned upon simply pushes the limits the other way - and makes people uncomfortable in these forums. Well, me anyway.Again, I say this with all the respect you know I hold for you... This topic just seems to have "bumped" *my* button.Take care,Elrondhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/Boycott-RIAA.gif]"A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle."[/font://http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/B...cle."[/b][/font

Excuse me Elrond? My "personal preferences" should not make "public policy"? Who's "personal preferences" should? Who should set "public policy" here Elrond?I am not "lashing out" at all. I had a button pushed, just like you. I think "bumping" is not all that clear cut, and its agregiousness is very dependent upon the message that is bumped. Three, four or more is totally uncalled for. If the content of the message didn't deserve or warrant a response the first time it was posted, or after the first bump, then the author should get the message.

I would hope that public policy is set by the general morals of the very people that make AVSIM a "community" instead of a dry web portal: those who visit these forums, contribute to them and contribute their files here. AVSIM's success is based around the massive amount of people that contribute here every day - visitors and "members" alike, so to speak. AVSIM policies are the foundation which encourages and sometimes strictly maintains the friendly environment that makes this community so wonderful. Its the people that come to these forums and build upon that foundation you maintain and those who upload their files to make the library so popular that make AVSIM what it is: The best simulation site on the net. Without the contributions, AVSIM becomes a private club - by definition.You, as head hauncho, of course enjoy and should demand the loudest voice of all, and the same with Francois and the rest of the great "admins" here. But if "absolute" public policy ("absolute" is what I said above as well) is made on the personal preferences of one person, you or anyone else, then I haven't understood the purpose of AVSIM all these years.Do you not agree with the way I view AVSIM? Maybe I'm way out in left field here... I don't know. Its simply the way I've always viewed AVSIM.Take care,Elrondhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/Boycott-RIAA.gif]"A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle."[/font://http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/B...cle."[/b][/font

You see it pretty much the same way we see it Elrond. I just wanted to understand what you meant by "public policy"... We try to accomodate all, and as the guys on staff can tell you, I don't do things unilaterally (well, I will occasionally break bad and threaten to do a wholesale web site redesign), but everything else we do is by concensus, and that applies to the forums as well. Policy is set here by that same concensus, and despite my "rant" earlier on, you don't see me or anyone else removing "bumped" posts just because they are "bumped". It was a personal rant; not an AVSIM rant, if you will.

You are right of course: why I called you on a simple personal rant I have no idea... I've slept only a few hours the past three days, so I think I'm off kilter right now. I apologize for letting that affect my posts.The best to you as always,Elrondhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/Boycott-RIAA.gif]"A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle."[/font://http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/B...cle."[/b][/font

Just to be clear something here... MY 'button' was pushed by message # 11, clearly indicating a contempt for the work the admins and moderators do on this site. I don't think my colleagues and I here deserve that.As for the bumping... with my European background I see that a bit more coloured in shades of grey :-lol I think it can be a useful and legitimate action at times, but must be used with utmost restraint, otherwise it indeed can be explained as a rude way of selfishly putting your message at the top, at the cost of other people's equally 'important' messages. And yes Elrond, this site and especially the forums, is what it is becasue of the visitors and their contributions. But ALSO because of maintaining some of the strictest rules in the business, that keep our 'streets' clean here, as opposed to some other forums I know of.There are pro's and con's to everything, obviously. Let's not get into the extremes on either side, that never will benefit anyone ;-)P.S. As from today I am running Outpost again.... thanks for all the tips ;-) :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: [email protected]________________________

I strenuously disagree with you on this point Tom. I've never been offended by that. Many times its just an issue that is really important to the author and he asks the question a second time. Whats wrong with that? You want people to post a fresh message to ask the question?Eric