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Forkboy2

Can we create overlays for different airline parking at

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For example, at KSAN, I'd like to create an overlay for different airlines. Say airlines A, B and C park at a particular terminal, or let's say a particular airline only uses a few gates and they are designated gates. I know we can split the airport and use different runways for each overlay, but how about using the same runway, but with an overlay for each airline?

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What I'm asking is... wouldn't the overlays have flights that arrive "together" and interfere with each other using the same runway or interfere with the ATC communications?Say at KSAN - I have three airlines, one runway. United, Southwest and American. They park at distinctive parts of the terminal, and thus I have KSAN, SAN1, SAN2.Because of the three overlays, ATC doesn't actually know how to vector planes to land in sequence - there would essentially be planes landing at "three airports" at the same time, although it really is just one airport - KSAN. So, wouldn't the planes risk landing on top of each other, or not knowing of each other's existence?And I also read about how planes may NOT park in their respectively overlays after landing. For example, United may park at American's gates after landing because it doesn't know which ground control goes with which overlay...?

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>And I also read about how planes may NOT park in their >respectively overlays after landing. For example, United may >park at American's gates after landing because it doesn't >know which ground control goes with which overlay...? That should not be possible if the overlays and flight plans are designed correctly. For example, if overlay san1 is for United, it will have only the United gates, and all flights plans for United will use san1 and not ksan or san2. It should be impossible for a plane landing at san1 to use gates that are not present in that overlay.You can also route airlines to specific gates by assigning matching radius values to gates (using Afcad) and ai planes (using AITM). You should be able to find more information on this in the ttools forum here on avsim.Sidney Schwartz [KPDX]

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I think what he is trying to say is that there will not be conflicts with the one runway that KSAN uses? KSAN1, KSAN2m KSAN2.... will all use runway 27/9 for takeoff and landings.Regards,Bill

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They use the same runway and the same tower, clearance, ground control, approach, departure, etc. ATC freq. so there shouldn't be a problem with all of the overlays using the same one runway. ATC will still know not to send three aircraft to take off at the same time because the one freq. is shared.[br][br][div align=center][br][link:members.cox.net/fstimes/wetimage.html]Click Here For Weather Image of the Day!

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Thanks for your responses.What I am asking is related to the problem which is highlighted briefly in the readme.html of AFCAD 1.2.2. Here is an excerpt:One thing that can make working with overlay airports tricky has to do with a quirk of the Flight Simulator ATC. If you program the AI to use separate overlays, they will land on the appropriate runway for the overlay they are assigned to, but once on the ground the AI will contact the ATC ground control at the closest airport for taxiing and parking instructions. At a normal airport there would only be one ATC ground control, and the closest airport would obviously be the one the AI just landed at, but in an overlaid airport there would be two ground controls at the exact same location, so the AI would contact just one of those ground controls. Unfortunately that may not be the ATC in the overlay the AI was programmed to land at, and they would end up going to a parking spot in the 'other' overlay. But worse still, this usually results in all the AI ending up in the same overlay and fighting for all the parking spots in that overlay, which would only be half the parking at that airport.There is a way to get around this, and that is to move the Airport Reference Point (the pink spiky dot) in the overlay and/or base airport. The AI contact the closest ground control based on the distance to the Airport Reference Point, so if you make sure that the reference point for each overlay is closest to the active runway for that overlay, then the AI will contact the 'right' ground control upon landing, and will remain in the overlay that it was programmed to land in. This works well for airports with parallel runways like KLAX or KATL, where you can easily move the reference point closer to the appropriate active runway, but that may not be easy to achieve at airports with crossing active runways.

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If overlays use the same runway, you will have problems with this. You might want to try a different technique for getting planes to park at the right terminal - aircraft and gate radii. Both I and Forkboy2 have posted threads about this, here and in the TTools forum. It works great and doesn't have the problems that overlays do. The only thing is that you need to edit your aircrafts' radii in AITM and your gate radii in AFCAD. Tedious but not hard.Hope this helps,-- Tom GibsonCalifornia Classic Propliners: http://www.calclassic.com/Cal Classic Alco Page: http://www.calclassic.com/alco/Freeflight Design Shop: http://www.freeflightdesign.com/ San Diego Model RR Museum: http://www.sdmodelrailroadm.com/Drop by! ___x_x_(")_x_x___

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>If overlays use the same runway, you will have problems with >this. You might want to try a different technique for >getting planes to park at the right terminal - aircraft and >gate radii. Both I and Forkboy2 have posted threads about >this, here and in the TTools forum. It works great and >doesn't have the problems that overlays do. The only thing >is that you need to edit your aircrafts' radii in AITM and >your gate radii in AFCAD. Tedious but not hard. >Hi,Thanks for your tip. However, I'm running into a problem.At RJAA, Tokyo Narita I am experimenting with just ONE runway, one AFCAD file and I'm going to tinker only with the Japan Airlines 747-400 and the UA 747-400. I've assigned the JAL gates as 2 meters (7 ft) and the UAL gates as 1 meter (3 feet) using AFCAD, and then used AITM to try to change the radius sizes by editing the RADIUS part under the Aircraft Editor.However, I noticed that since I am using PAI aircraft, these aircraft share one common MDL file, only differing in an extra entry in the aircraft.cfg file. Hence, if I edit the JAL 744 to be 2m, the UAL will be 2m too. Does this mean I need a separate MDL for each plane?

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Wow, I just solved my own problem.Just realized I needed to have model.UA under the main PAI 744 folder, just like I have one for texture.UA.Thanks! It IS powerful! :)

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Tom,Okay, now that I've got the basics down, I'm running into a potentially really tricky situation. Let me try to simplify it. Say I assign UA as 2,3,4 meters for small, medium and large airliners, and at say, ORD, it's obvious that the gates I will assign to UA airliners are going to all the B and C gates, along with the E and F gates for United Express, let's say UX=1 meter.I am assuming I can still use overlays to create multi-runway use - just that I no longer need to worry about United planes landing and parking at the wrong end of the airport.That point taken care of, my concern is thus, what happens at an airport which isn't so heavily United, where United actually shares the gates with a bunch of airlines say, at LHR/EGLL. It would make no sense to fix United to a handful of gates, because wouldn't that make those gates unavailable for other airlines to use while United isn't there (like late at night local time, when all United planes have departed). To better illustrate, United flies 767s and 777s to LHR. That would be medium and large planes, hence radius size 3 and 4. United uses the K gates at LHR and as far as I know, other airlines also use the K gates at other times of the day when United isn't there. If say, Cathay Pacific (it isn't for real) 747-400s use those same gates but at different times, and Cathay Pacific 747-400s are coded radius size 10... wouldn't it not be able to use those gates?This issue gets really complicated as you do more airports, because it is easy to dedicate a whole bank of gates at a hub airport of an airline, but when you do an airport where that airline doesn't occupy those gates 100% of the time, you effectively lose the use of those gates for other airlines because those airlines are coded differently, does that make sense.How do I get around this problem?

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Keep an eye out over the next couple days for a post from either myself or Kevin Au. We've put together a matrix that covers just about all of the worlds largest airlines and a system that will allow AFCAD designs to get most aircraft to go to the correct gates. I say most, because it is not perfect, but it works very well with the testing we've done so far. Unfortunately we are limited to about 47 different radius slots so it's a little tricky trying to figure out which airlines can share slots (ie United 737's can have same slot at British Airways 737 since you're not likely to find them at same airport)We've also worked out a way to get the international flights to go to gates assigned for international flights so you can set up international terminals, etc.Anyway, we should be ready to unveil the matrix for comments from everyone in the next day or so. The real trick in getting this system to work is coming up with a matrix that everyone will agree on so people can design an AFCAD file and uploade it to AVSIM and it will work on everyone else's system.Matt

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