Hi everyone: Looking at the Radeons, a simple question is, at the high resolutions, (16X12, etc.), is the 9800 really 50% faster than the 9500 Pro? I'm trying to decide whether a 9800 is worth the money. Keith

No. The 9700/9800 cards do 1600x1200 quite a bit better than the 9500/9600 cards. It all depends on what game/sim you're running and at what settings. In FS9, there's likely scenarios where the 9800 would achieve fifty percent more frames and scenarios where it wouldn't. The 9500 has 128bit memory and 4 pipelines. The 9700/9800 have 256bit memory and 8 pipelines. When a lot of video power is needed, they'll deliver. Especially at high resolutions. I have the 9700 Pro. It's not very far behind the 9800 Pro in FS9 framerate wise despite what you read at Tom's Hardware. I may upgrade when the R420 becomes available. To do so now with either a 9800Pro or XT, would be a waste of my money. The 9500 Pro is a good card. It'd be a tough call, but whether it'd be worth spending the extra bucks would depend on the rest of your system and it'd be a personal choice. In other words, do you just have to have the latest and the greatest? If you don't have a PIV 3gig processor, I wouldn't spend the money right now.

Bigshot: Thanks a lot. I was skeptical, but Tom's Hardware showed some big differences between the 9800 and 9700. I thought that was quite a departure from the previous versions of FS, where the sim was particularly CPU dependent. I have a feeling the 9500 Pro is good enough, even though I see the 9800 Pro ia available for $300, now. Keith

Well: Six months later, now, and the 9800 Pro is down to $250. I even saw it for $200, but I hesitated, and was lost. I like to fly at 16X12, and the 9800 is looking good. I also worry about how much longet the 9800 Pro will be avaiable. I got one of the last 9500 Pros. K

Well, the acid test for FS is flying through complex weather using ActiveSky 2004, at least on my machine. So, the real question is, on a ~P43GHz machine, how does the 9800 XT 9 (or R420) perform in this situation, when the 9700 Pro is running along at 12-14 fps? It happens as we all know, when you have sliders way up, you are in a complex aircraft, and the weather starts ramping up. My guess is that in complex weather the faster video cards may pay off.Noel

"My guess is that in complex weather the faster video cards may pay off."Yep. While I agree with Bigshot's point about upgrading from a 9700 Pro to a 9800 Pro, I did just that recently (for what amounted to a little over $50.00 out of pocket). I immediately removed the cooler from the 9800 Pro and saw that it had the R360 GPU, so a quick BIOS flash turned the card into an XT. It's running stable at 425/398. My 9700 Pro had been running at 350/330, and I can notice the difference between the two cards. A faster card simply performs better (especially in those complex situations)... by the laws of physics (and electronics).Greg

Hey Guys: I went to a local store and saw three 9800s on a shelf. Where they got them I don't know. Brand new ATI retails, but no price sticker. So, I took one up to the cashier and said, "How much?" He scanned it, $179. I got it. I'm leaving it shrink-wrapped in case you say it is a serious disadvantage to a Pro, but I thought I should grab it while it was there. Also, what about heat? My machine tends to get a little toasty, so I am concerned about reports that the Pros and XTs are hot-tempered. K

Well, meez holding out for a 420 XT yeah!Noel

""I went to a local store and saw three 9800s on a shelf""__________________________________________________________The 9800 NP is a little bit slower than a 9700Pro. Just a couple frames. The 9700/9800/9700Pro/9800Pro/9800XT deliver in that order and are all 256bit 8 pipeline cards. Just make sure it doesn't say "SE" on it. If it does, return it. Otherwise, I'd drop it in and see what you get. Buying a card from a source that allows returns/exchanges is also an important consideration when shopping for video cards.

Bigshot: Yeah, it is a real 9800, no SE. They allow returns, but with a 15% fee, if they choose to, on an opened package. The choices in buying a real ATi for less than $200 are few and far between. Newegg wants $230 for a Pro, and has only refurbished 9800s for $173. Circuit City has the Pro for $200 after rebate, but that means $280 out of pocket with tax, and my wife will choke on that. (VBG) K

Hold your horses until the R420 and NV40 is on the shelf. You will be happy ;)

Well, I don't think I can even consider paying what a 420 will cost, and I'm done with Nvidia. K

The lowend X800se will probably not cost more than an 9800 PRO and may very well beat it.I would guess you would actually get more bang for the buck for a 39$ X800 PRO or what it will cost. It may be as low as 299$ too I can