Having just reached the big seven0 I thought I might treat myself to a CPU and mbo upgrade. However I have been looking at the posts on the hardware forums at FlightSim and AVSIM which make me wonder whether in fact I can get a justifiable improvement in fps. My current system consists of:AMD Athlon XP 2800+ (Barton)Gigabyte GA 7VAX mobo Albatron GEForce4 Ti 4200P Turbo128MB video card (61.77drv)1Gb Samsung PC2100DDR RAMIBM 40GB 7200rpm hard driveMaxtor 80GB 7200rpm hard driveCreative Sound Blaster PCI128 with latest driversCHProducts PCI yoke and pedalsWindows XP Home edition with SP1 and SP2DirectX 9.0(:(ATX case with four fans - one suck, three blowI have my FPS set at unlimited and the majority of time I am in double digits, mostly over 20, which is just fine. But I sometimes get into single digits in busy locations, the worst is Schiphol in NL2000 where I only get 6fps on Runway6, and it is difficult landing with such jerky flying. I really would like to get into double digits all the time. Frame rate killers of course are AI traffic and weather. AI density is dependent on how many flightplans, how many available gates and how many aircraft you have, and 45% is a good balance in my system. Weather of course varies. Most of my sliders are set at max and I would like to keep them that way.My dealer suggests I move to an AMD Athlon64 3200+ with the 939 socket and he claims I will experience a substantial improvement in performance

Hi Nigel,While your 2800 Barton isn't included in this graph, you might compare your proposed upgrade to the P4 2.8Ghz that is included:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/102968.jpgYour 4600 will be a hindrance to your proposed upgrade. If you wish to stay with nVidia the 6600 series cards offer great performance for the price. Also, you should give serious consideration to upgrading your memory to at least PC3200 speed.Upgrading the video card and memory along with your proposed CPU will offer you a nicely balanced system. Finally, make sure the CPU you buy is the Winchester core... they run quite cool and offer nice overclocking headroom at low prices.Hope this helps,Greg

FWIW...Though there is a learning curve, Over-clocking has great potential if you like having a "sleeper" rig or want to save some bucks for other things...For example, keep your rig as it is right now, pick up a mobile XP-2600 and with just two pin wire-pin mods and a good Heat sink like the SP-97 and you will have more gaming performance than the 64-3200 all for less than $140.This rig runs 24/7 @ 2.65 and thats with a just a 26CFM 80mm fan.Since it is a mobile chip it is made to run fast on low voltage, it is also prime silicon and comes unlocked from the fab hence when running on a desk-top with higher voltage it is capable of insane overclocking and power.No upgrade re-install OS headachs etc.There are risk of course, so its not for the faint of heart.But its hard to pass on this one right now, it is THE sleeper chip right now for those that are already setup with their older XP boxes.Get em while you can.

I recently upgraded from an XP3200+ to an A64 3000+ (@ 3800+ overclocked) and noticed a substantial improvement in heavy situation FPS in the order of 50-100%. ie. before I was seeing sub-10fps with mutli-addons (particularly AS2004.5 weather, UT 2004 and PMDG 737NG), but now I rarely see below 18FPS and most often my FPS is pegged at 50FPS! IMO, the A64 is a major booster of performance over my previous Athlon XP (now residing in my son's computer).Gary

I upgraded from a 2400+ @ 2800+ speeds to an Athlon64 3500+ (running default for now). However I upgraded from the Radeon 9700 Pro to the X800XT at the same time so it's hard to say how much of the improvement came from the CPU upgrade. You'll probably want to look at getting a new videocard as well. Anyway I noticed a significant improvement - where I got ~16 FPS before I get over 26 now.

What kind of fan heatsink are you using for your setup. That is a pretty high jump in terms of overclocking.Thanks,RH

That sounds like a good idea. What do you mean by two wire-pin mods? Is it hard to do? I am using the Thermaltake Volcano 12 heatsink and fan. Would that be a decent choice to use with a setup like yours to overclock to 2.65? Here's a quick review of my heatsink/fan if you are not familiar with it:http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/cooling/Tt_Volcano12/I too am using the XP2800 and am running into the same problems as the gentleman posting the original message. Perhaps the info you provide can help him too.Thanks in advance!RH

Robbie,I'm using the stock HSF that came in the retail pack. Temps are generally between 50 and 55C under full load. I realise that I could achieve lower temps with a better HSF but the extra cost and the fact that any supposed resultant improvement in CPU longevity is beyond the timeframe that I actually care (2 yrs max), I'll stick with stock cooling for now.Gary

Nigel,I just had my system custom made last month. I have the GIGABYTE K8NS-Pro with the 754 socket 3200+. I stay around 28 or so in major area's, and once i get up, i lock at 30-33-or 35, i change it alot. I like my system, compared to what i came from. I had it built with the 9600XT 128 vid card, and im shure if i was to drop the 6800GT 128MB in it, (just saw it at best buy for 308$) i would be pushing 40 or 50 with settings max, or close to max. The 754 socket, i have seen as high as the 3700+, but the 939, if budget allows, is worth it. Not shure how much better, but it can take faster processors, and i know if you were to bench mark the two, there is a performance difference. 939, leads over the 754, but i am happy with what i have. Go with the 939 if budget allows it, and shoot for the 3800+ or that new beast, the 4000+. Get the 6600GT 128MB, or any of the 6800 series, or even go with the 9800Pro 128, and it will blow your old system away i imagine.Im not saying the 754 isnt any good, i love mine, runs great. But if you can, and want better, shoot for the 939 socket. Price tags do jump though. 3400+ in the 754 is around 150$ more than my 3200+. To go from the 3000+ to the 3200+, its only around 50 at my local store. But when you want the 754 3400+ get ready to pass out some green. If you want anything much higher than the 3400+, i think the 939 is a better choice.

Thx everyone for all the great information, particularly Gregg for that great comparison chart. Paul, you said that your proposition was not for the faint of heart and that

Well I did it

Hi Nigel,Congrats on your new system!"I thought FS was totally CPU dependent so what would a faster video card do?"While FS certainly will make full use of even the fastest CPU, it also wants a well balanced system. And your Ti4200 is now holding back all that new (and fast) hardware you have. The 4xxx series cards don't do Alpha textures (clouds in FS) well at all, hence the performance hit you experience when flying in heavy weather. I suspect the low performance you're experiencing at NL2000 Schilphol is because of your video card as well.A current generation nVidia or ATI card will help matters greatly.Good luck,GregP.S. This gaming hardware stuff can be like a bottomless pit, huh?

Yepp Nigel, I totally second Greg's words, thus the congrats and that your GF4200 is certainly holding you back. Equally and as far as can judge, if it's the NL2000 EHAM, that one is a hog on almost any system. Case you don't want to spend too much money on a display adapter, Ati's 9800pro is a nice compromise before taking it to the X800 or GF6800 price levels. What kind of display or resolution are you using? Good luck and kind regards Jaap PS: IMHO, you could improve your case fan setup a little bit: Since the PSU is also a sucker, perhaps invert two of the other suckers to blowers? Specially HDs like fresh air blowers. The way it is now, I could imagine your PSU-fan lacks a bit of it's ability to cool itself (underpressure). If not already present, perhaps place a piece of i.e. ladies stockings in front of the blowers to avoid dust entering the case.

Yeh, before I started this people were telling me the same thing

I think the graphics card is the limiting factor in this case. The AMD cpu is just marginaly slower than the lastest A64. Frame rates are almost completely determined with the graphics card. I tested my system on FS2004 when I changed from my athlon 1600 to a friends 2600 and didn't notice much change (under 10%).