Hi everyone,I want to upgrade my pretty old system, and i'm currently looking for the best CPU deal I can get, on a budget ofcourse.After weeks of extensive internet-based research, I've come to a preliminary decision: the Intel Pentium D 805 processor, available for $120.My previous choice was the AMD Athlon 64 3200+ processor. But I think dual-core CPUs are way better. I know that the Athlon 64 family beats the Pentium D series in every single gaming test. But they really fall back in multitasking tests. And also i've seen that the Pentium D 805 CPU is really an OC monster, with frequencies going up to 4000+ MHz with water cooling!My selected board is the ASUS P5LD2 mobo with an Intel 945P chipset.The questions for you hardware gurus are:- What's your opinion regarding the single vs. dual core processors? And how will it affect the upcoming FSX?- Is this the right mobo for OCing this particular CPU?- I've read on ASUS site that this mobo will have support for Intel Core processors, is that true?Any answers, suggestions, or comments are really appreciated.Thanks for everyone, and sorry for my bad english..KinanP.S.: Current system specs. are listed in signature.

I'm certainly no guru (see my recent thread showing my woes of upgrading to dual core :-lol ), but I can answer some of your questions from my experiences:Re dual versus single, dual makes a heck of a lot of difference in everyday windows use in terms of smoothness due to load balancing between the two cores. FS2004 doesn't run on both cores, but the spare core can run all that other windows housekeeping stuff that would otherwise steal CPU cycles from a single core - this spells smoothness again. Finally if you run an array of external FS addons like I do, you don't have to keep minimising FS to get them to run full speed (eg. building a flight plan in FSBuild).FSX is currently an unknown quantity with dual core but since the latter part of development has occured with dual cores around it is likely to have been coded in some areas to take advantage of it. The FSX demo is supposedly out on Wednesday, so if you keep an eye on the FSX forum just after that you'll likely see whether dual core is making any difference.Re Core 2 Duo support, ASUS' website explicitly states that the SE version of the board is Core 2 Duo ready.Is there any reason why you haven't considered an AMD X2 dual core? The 3800+ costs only $30 more than your P4 D and most overclock past 2.4GHz putting you in 4600+ territory and surely rivalling and perhaps even besting a 4GHz P4. Gary

Thanks for the reply. I've dropped the X2 because it's still expensive here, offered for about $200. So there's a whopping price difference between the two.As for the mobo, it's mentioned in this link:http://www.asus.com/products3.aspx?l1=3&l2...me=Intel%20945P that ((*Only PCB R2.0(or higher) support Intel

FSX is dual core coded as per tdraggers' comments in other threads.Glenn

I'm sure it is. But in Tom's hardware CPU charts, the Athlon 64 series outperforms the Pentium D 820 in every gaming test by an average of 30~40 FPS.. Will FSX change that fact now that its been dual core coded?The subject here is that new technologies aren't always better at the beginning. Take the PCI-Express socket for example, it has been around for 2 years or so, but it doesn't show any considerable improvement over AGP 8x yet. Now, it's a similar situation with the single vs. dual core, especially in the gaming corner. However, the charts at Tom's hardware doesn't represent an actual reading of dual core performance in gaming, because the games tested were not originally dual-core coded.I hope game developpers continue to join the dual-core trend.And let's not forget that ACES are doing very well in the upcoming version of Flight Simulator. Thanks for all the good work you guys! Keep it up!

Dual-core games will definitely boost performance in many future games and will become more or less the standard in the next 12 months, especially since they are just about to become mainstream with the recent significant price drops.I totally agree that newer technologies are often not better then the last generation. PCI-E/AGP, SATA/PATA, DDR/DDR2, etc. do not offer a lick of performance increase nowadays and, if so, only very marginal.Right now, you just can't go wrong with any dual-core processor. They're all excellent and will probably produce excellent results with FSX, if paired with a strong GPU.Pat

Some comments:>Thanks for the reply. I've dropped the X2 because it's still>expensive here, offered for about $200. You can get a 3800+ (dual-core) for $150 on-line. A 4600+ for $199.>As for the mobo, it's mentioned in this link:>http://www.asus.com/products3.aspx?l1=3&l2...me=Intel%20945P>>that ((*Only PCB R2.0(or higher) support Intel

Thank you Pat & Rhett for the valuable informations.>You can get a 3800+ (dual-core) for $150 on-line. A 4600+ for>$199.I know that, but unfortunately I don't have the ability to buy online.>PCB = PC Board Revision 2.0 = just a fancy way of saying>revision 2 of that motherboard. If you get one of those, just>make sure it's the revision 2 version.How can I do that? I mean where can I find the revision number?>Why not go for one of the i975 chipset boards? They support>Core 2 Duo straightaway. With the 945, it appears from what>you have posted, that a person cannot be certain. Does the>975 chipset not support the Pentium D 8xx series?I'm afraid it's more expensive. And i'm not sure they support the Pentium D 8xx series.>Keep in mind the price of the cheapest Core 2 Duo cpu. It>will be pretty close to your price range. If I were you I>might be tempted...Well, i'm tempted already, but i'm on a very tight budget. So even a $20 will make a difference, if you know what I mean..>If you plan to later upgrade to a Core 2 Duo, then I agree,Actually i'm taking that into consideration. So, when the Pentium D begins to drag behind, the Core 2 Duo will be ready to take its place, and hopefully, on the same mobo!Thanks again.

>>How can I do that? I mean where can I find the revision>number?>Well, a good vendor should mark the board as "Abit LX6 revision 2" . If your vendor doesn't indicate which ver it is, and just says, "Abit LX6", then I would probably not buy it until I *knew* it was rev2. You just can't take that chance, if what you say is true about only the rev2 supporting Core 2 Duo's. You want to build some future-proofing into it.You do not want a motherboard that will not support Core 2 Duo, since you may want to upgrade to one eventually.>>Why not go for one of the i975 chipset boards? They support>>Core 2 Duo straightaway. With the 945, it appears from what>>you have posted, that a person cannot be certain. Does the>>975 chipset not support the Pentium D 8xx series?>>I'm afraid it's more expensive. And i'm not sure they support>the Pentium D 8xx series.Well I'm not sure either. I think Pat or some other Intel-knowing people might know. I would want to find out **100%** for sure before I spent my money. I am more familiar with AMD setups than Intel right now.You do know, that in a month or two, the 975 chipset boards will be cheaper, and you will also see new motherboards that support the Core 2 Duo as well. nVidia is about to release a chipset for the Core 2 Duo also.>>Well, i'm tempted already, but i'm on a very tight budget. So>even a $20 will make a difference, if you know what I mean..>>In my opinion, you can't build a decent-performing PC for less than $800. FS needs good hardware as I'm sure you know. I don't know how much you expect to spend, or what parts you will re-use (hard drive? monitor? case?). Ideally, all you really want is motherboard, cpu, and ram. If that's all you need, you can do it right for $500.Tight budget and "future-proof" do not go together. If you later want to go with a Core 2 duo cpu, then with the relatively expensive cost of the 975 motherboards (right now), that kind of precludes you from going all budget in a Core 2 build at the moment.If you went with AMD, you can build a real budget rig right now.I'd bet though, that in a month or two, Core 2 Duo motherboards will be much much cheaper.If it were me, I know what I would do. Wait until October, then get:i975 chipset motherboard, or nForce5 (ASUS, preferably) ($120)Core 2 Duo E6600, or the one below that ($250-$300)1 gig of ram (Corsair, Mushkin, etc.) 2 gigs is better but can always add that later, since you are on tight budget ($100)6800GT video card (don't spend a lot on video card because of DX10) ($150-$180)Seasonic 500+ watt power supply <$100.Antec P-series case or Coolermaster Praetorian, etc. <$100Western Digital or Seagate 7500 rpm hard drive, at least 100 gigs. ($60+ depending on size)I would skip the Pentium D and shoot for October and just go straight to a Core 2 Duo. The low-end core 2 duo will blow away a Pentium D 8xx series and anything AMD has right now. Why spend money on a hot-running obsolete cpu?Rhett

The problem is that i'm having a hardware breakdown at the moment.. I was suffering from CTDs for over a year!! I've tried all the tricks in the market to try and find out what's causing this.. Until recently, I had a boot problem, and my mobo automatically lowered the FSB to 100 MHz instead of 133 MHz. So I kept that frequency to try and see what happens.. And, BINGO, there goes all my troubles! My PC NEVER CRASHED EVER SINCE!!!!! And I mean NEVER! I couldn't believe this, coz it happened after a whole year of CTDs in the middle of a 3 hours flight (I installed an auto-save module for that!);-) But it didn't help much with other games and software, even Firefox had his fair share of CTDs..Anyway, that was mentioned for reference only.The point is, that was a temporary resolution, because I know my 5 years old CPU can't take it longer, and soon it'll be a total meltdown.:-halo So as you can see, i'm trying to hold things together mostly for the sake of FSX. And i'm trying to do that as fast as I can.>>In my opinion, you can't build a decent-performing PC for less than>>$800. FS needs good hardware as I'm sure you know. I don't know how>>much you expect to spend, or what parts you will re-use (hard drive?>>monitor? case?). Ideally, all you really want is motherboard, cpu,>>and ram. If that's all you need, you can do it right for $500.What i've learned from my extensive internet research is that i'm gonna have to find the right balance between tight budget and "future-proof" features. My what-is-thought-to-be the right balance is the following:- Pentium D 805, $120, future-proof because of its over-clocking capabilties, and it's a dual-core already. The plan is to get water-cooling to raise the frequency up to 4 GHz WHEN & only WHEN I need that extra boost (probably after 1~2 years from now). Because I believe I won't be needing the extra Core 2 power before that time.- ASUS P5LD2 i945P, $135, future-proof becaue it supports PCI-E and DDR2-667 up to 4 GB. SATA2 support. Yet-to-be-proven Core 2 support. 7.1 built-in sound card (though I don't need it). Estimated lifetime is at least 4 years.- ASUS nVidia Geforce 6600GT (EN6600GT) w/256 GDDR3, i'll be getting this as a second-hand (used for 6 months) from my friend for $80. Should be enough until DX10 cards take control.- 2*512 TwinMos DDR2-533 memory, $100, somewhat future-proof, but easily upgradeable later.So that's the whole plan. The rest stays unchanged. Although i'm tempted to get a brand new SATA2 HDD, but that doesn't trouble me right now.You said $500 without adding a VGA card. Whilst my plan costs $435 with a somewhat decent and temporary VGA. Plus, I will be selling my old parts for $160. 435-160= $275.It's no Alien PC for sure!! But I think it'll do the trick. And the rest is left for the ACES team to make FSX go easy on those tiny, poor, & defensless transistors!!Now that you know my plan, please tell me what do you think?? I'll be needing every single advice before I make that decision.Thanks again Rhett. I appreciate your help.

I think your plan is sound.Gary

>>Now that you know my plan, please tell me what do you think??>I'll be needing every single advice before I make that>decision.>I think you have a good plan there. Sorry to hear about your hardware problems; I didn't realize your immediate need.You will want water cooling, or some really good air, if and when you try to push that Pentium D to 4 ghz. I think in 2 years or so, you might be wanting to buy a Core 2 Duo for $60 :) instead of overclocking your hot old Pentium D.Sounds like you have a good plan though, for that money. You'll be fine in FSX with that rig. That's great to get all of that for $435 or so.Rhett

Ok, thank you guys.I'll start the "upgrade process" tomorrow, and I will post the detailed results probably next week.So, stay tuned, and wish me luck.

You need it. This is not an easy time to upgrade.Rhett

Hi everybody,I've completed the upgrade yesterday. ALMOST everything went as expected because the mobo was unfortunately R1.03, so, no support for Core processors. That was quite a disturbing decision, but I made it because I didn't find a reasonable replacement. I got another surprise with the RAM. I couldn't find 2 TwinMos modules (only 1GB module was available!). So instead I went for the Samsung brand and got 2 modules 512 MB each for the same price of the TwinMos modules.Here's my old parts list for reference: AMD Athlon XP 1700+, Asus A7V133-C mobo, 512 SDR RAM, Asus nVidia Geforce FX5200 w/256 GDDR3.The retail store took care of putting the pieces together. The total cost after cutting old parts' prices settled at $320.And the results were really amazing!! At least a 500-600% performance increase over my old PC. Most of the credit goes to the Geforce 6600GT, a real monster, I couldn't believe my eyes!!The only not-so-surprising fact here is HEAT. The CPU didn't hesitate to show a thirst for water!! With temperatures maxing @ 55 C if idle, to 65 C when busy.. And the stock fan???!!!! SUCKS real bad.. A huge noise maker, and thank god for Q-FAN!!But anyway, I was expecting that. And i'm already starting the quest of finding the right FAN for the right price again!I don't actually have any benchmarking tools to give accurate performance evaluation. But anyway, so far I've tried the following games: (all games running at 1024*768 resolution with 32 bit colors, no AA, no AF)- FS2004, everything maxed out except 3D cloud density set to high. Great performance and visuals, I got over 20 FPS most of the time. Except times when I was at Heathrow airport with traffic set at 80% I got around 15-16 FPS.. Anyway, I didn't have much time to tweak & test, but so far so good.- NFS UG2 and NFS MW, both are maxed out, runs as smooth as silk.. No problems at all.- Ship Simulator 2006, also maxed out, no problems here. Great water effects by the way!- Dreamfall: The Longest Journey, I was playing this for the first time, I know it's not so power-demanding, but the visuals are just great, 4x AA used here. No problems.- And finally, the well-known PC torture expert: Oblivion 4. Also great results, at least, I had all the visual effects enabled, draw distance & draw related settings etc were set to medium. Great result I think! And gorgeous bloom effects!Loading times were at minimum all the time, great memory performance I guess.So, that's all. It turned out to be a nice deal for my $320! It's also good to have a dual-core CPU, I could for example switch between Oblivion 4 and another application in 1 second or so! Great for multi-tasking, even greater than I thought!!I'm happy the process went on without a glitch. I got all the necessary 64 bit drivers, and I had some minor 64 bit compatibility issues with some older programs, but it wasn't a serious trouble. Everyhting is working great so far, except for that heat issue. But it won't take long before I get a new CPU cooling system.So, thanks again for the help you guys provided.If you have any questions or a request for a specific test, please post here and i'll try to answer it ASAP.