Hello, current specs posted at the bottom, i need a motherboard that will support overclocking, im looking to get my 6600 up to at least 3.2. I have a little expierience o'cing, however some tips will help. The Motherboard has to support Dual channel ram, at 667. my e6600, doesnt have to be SLI. Another question I have is is there a difference (fps wise) between the intel chipset and nvidia chipset? Thanks for all your help. (Budget anywhere from 100 to 175 bucks)

Check this thread: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147163The Abit IP-35 Pro can be had for about $175. The Nvidia boards work too, but you gotta be careful. They can be glitchy with high FSBs. No FPS difference. It's all about getting that FSB stable at 400+ mhz.

You RAM is going to be the limiting factor I'd say, as even at the highest multipler that an E6600 offer of 9 x, your bus speed will be 356, hence your RAM at lowest RAM divisor will be 2 x 356 = 712. Any higher may be a stretch for RAM branded "value RAM" (but I could be wrong ;-))Anyway, I have had good success with two Gigabyte DS3 motherboards hitting 450MHz and 375MHz bus respectively. These retail for around $100-$110.Gary

I've got my E6600 up to 3.6GHz stable on an Asus Commando using the same cooler you have just now, great overclocking board and rock solid stable.

Gary, I've also been looking for a reasonably-priced motherboard for a new FSX rig with either an E6750 or E6850, and was initially looking at an eVGA 650i motherboard. Is it more advisable to get a board with an Intel chipset? (The GA-965P-DS3 has all the other features I need, and isn't a lot more expensive.) Did you need to add any active cooling to your DS3 boards to achieve your overclocking results? Regarding RAM, newegg is running two "deals" at the moment: - Patriot 2GB eXtreme DDR2 1066 for $124 (after MIR) rated at 5-5-5-9 and 2.3V, and - Corsair 2GB XMS2 DDR2 800 for $71 (after MIR), rated at 4-4-4-12 at 2.1V. Would the Patriot DDR2 1066 be the better choice? I noticed in your sig that you're using 3GB of the Corsair XMS2, and I assume you've gotten good oc'ing results with the Corsair. (I noticed your other post where you mention sacrificing a bit of memory performance to get the benefit of a full 3GB. I wonder why manufacturers don't offer matched 1.5GB sticks for Vista32 users who want 3GB of DDR2? I'm sure they'd sell.) Thanks, - Lee

Lee,To be honest, I don't know much about the 650i motherboards, as I have been pretty happy with the 965 series even against some of these newer offerings. I bought another DS3 when I upgraded my son's computer, which interestingly offered some wins and loses over my older rev board. On the win front, his board comes with more fan headers (mine has only one - CPU!) and runs the latest BIOS without exhibiting wierdness like mine does (my idle temps are 48C ish with the F12 BIOS, but with F7 they are 30C?). On the lose front, his board seems to max out at around 375MHz bus, whereas mine can go all the way up to 450MHz (2G RAM only though). eg. for his board to get to 3.2GHz on his E4300, he has to run 9 x 356, not 8 x 400 which would be more balanced. He has the same RAM as me, but we haven't bothered swapping to see if it is RAM or mobo (if it ain't broke...).Re RAM choices, I read an online review recently (don't have the link handy right now) that basically showed neglible performance difference between higher and lower speed RAM, especially if the timings change proportionally (ie. 4-4-4-X @ 800MHz is roughly as fast as 5-5-5-X @ 1066MHz). In other words, either of your memory options would perform the same.The one thing in favour of the 1066 RAM though is that it will play better with lower mult CPUs like the E6750, as you can drive your bus speed up to over 500MHz (if your mobo can handle it) @ 1:2 memory setting without pushing the memory past its rated speed. But what you save on getting a cheaper CPU, you spend on higher speed memory. Bit of a catch 22 :-)My personal opinion is that while the nex E6X50 series CPU's are priced nicely, they don't offer much more than the old school E6X00/E6X20 series or even the E4X00 series in overclocking limits, and they also cost correspondingly less. eg. the E6600 matches with the E6850 in multiplier, costs nearly $80 less and will likely clock to the same 3.2-3.6GHz the new E6850 is getting to on air. The E4X00 series is even cheaper and I am very pleased that my son's $117 E4300 made it to 3.2GHz easily. As I've said before, it's all a compromise, but at some point you just have to pick the best combo you can come up with and roll the dice ;-)Gary

When you go for a E**50 series DON'T buy a 865 chipset board. I have made the same mistake, they won't req. the new 1333Mhz CPU's. My E6750 was seen as a 2,4 Ghz cpu. Now I have a Gigabyte P35 DS3 and is running very well for only 20 bucks more and ready for the next coming Intel Penryn cpu'sHappy landings....

As long as the 965 DS3 is Ver 1.3 or higher, it will fully support all current 1333MHz CPUs.Gary

This advice is really helpful. Checking out Gigabyte's offerings, I found a "bargain" P35 motherboard, the GA-P35-S3L, for only a hundred bucks. However, I'm inclined to spend the extra $30 for the DS3 model, which is GA-P35-DS3R. It's got great user reviews, has all the features I need, overclocks nicely, and would enable me to upgrade to a Penryn CPU if I so desired. Any thoughts about this board? RAM: I'd like to go with the 4-4-4-12 Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C4, but it's not on Gigabyte's "approved" list. (I assume your Corsair RAM isn't "approved," either.) Do I need to be concerned about compatibility with the P35 board? We haven't discussed the default voltage much, and I've read some user reviews that Gigabyte boards are somewhat picky when it comes to RAM voltages. CPU: The bottom line is, How does your son's FSX performance on his overclocked E4300 compare to the performance you get from your (overclocked) E6600? If the performance differences are negligible, then I'd probably attempt my first-ever CPU overclocking adventure. ;) However, if noticeable performance gains are to be had with an E6X50 or E6X00 then it may be worth the extra $90 or so. Your final point about "rolling the dice" is well-taken. If this appears to be a good combo, then I'm willing to take the plunge and keep my fingers crossed for a good outcome. Isn't life full of risks and compromises, anyway? ;) Implicit in your comments is that you can build a very capable FSX system without spending a fortune to do it. (I'm looking at under $1,000 not including monitor.) I think this dispels a popular myth that you have to spend thousands on hardware to get good FSX performance. Again, I really appreciate your advice on this -- it's helped me a LOT! - Lee

Overclocking ram will make no difference. The best bet is to get ram that is rated to run a the boards default setting. As you overclock the FSB to get your desired CPU clock. use the ram divider to maintain the ram at that default setting. These 266 FSB boards (QDR 1066) will drive any ram a builder cares to install to 2 (DDR) x 266 (FSB) = 533 mhz. DDR2-533 is all that is needed. There is no need to get ran that is rated to run faster than this. However, IRW, DDR2-667 is a standard. This will be fine. There's no noticeable performance boost with ram O/C'd to DDR2-800 or faster. This kind of ram overclocking is only for fun. . . . and fun it is! The Mobo will have ram dividers / multipliers and-or presets to drive ram at a set speed. They are all different, but the bios will have a way to speed-up or slow down ram relative to its default "FSB x 2X (DRR) = Ram Speed" internal preset. Use this to keep the ram at or below its rated speed. Get a 2 gig set of DDR2-667 Patriot at the Egg for $60. Use the proceeds to get the Thermalright Ultra CPU cooler. 200mhz of additional CPU O/C is worth 1000X of aNy Ram O/C.

Thanks, Sam. How do I find out what the "default....internal preset" is for a particular motherboard's RAM? For example, when I look at the P35-DS3R's specs on Newegg, all it tells me is that the "Memory Standard" is either DDR2-800 or DDR2-1066, which seems to conflict with what you've just said above about buying DDR2-667. So am I supposed to be looking for memory timings, voltages, or something else entirely? I'm confused about what to look for. My main objective is to find some reasonably-priced RAM that I'm sure will give me no compatibility problems. I've seen quite a few posts from Gigabyte mobo users who say their boards can be quirky about RAM. I just did a search for Patriot DDR2-667 on Newegg, but I could find nothing cheaper than $93 (for 2GB). Can you give me a part # to look for? That Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme certainly looks like the best cooler on the market right now... for this month, anyway. ;) Honestly, I don't think I've seen a comparative test in which it hasn't come out on top.... for quite a while now. Finally, I'd have to do quite a bit of searching to find it, but I thought Phil Taylor had posted in the pre-SP1 days that FSX could actually benefit from overclocked RAM. I may be mistaken, though. Thanks again.... - Lee

Here's a thread to look through. These guys have beat that G-board to death . . . and like it! http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=142340I'm afraid Gigibyte has turned their customer's ram buy decisions onto a ram-O-rama . . . for profit. I looked over Egg's profile and GB's site. Egg is basically a cut and paste from GB's nonsense. This is just blatantly misleading advertising meant to feed on us 'regular ol' folks.'You'll notice in the forum posts, they are using all sorts of memory with this GB board. There are 40 pages of this. Remember, these are overclockers. Component selection is often more about the O/C-ing fun factor than actual real world performance. You'll see a lot of DDR2-800 (and higher) rated ram in use . . . but aNy DDR2, non EEC, non-buffered ram will work in a P35 chipset mobo. EEC/Buffered ram is only used in hi-dollar servers and is Very expensive. You'd be hard pressed to even find it at a consumer site like the Egg. If GB had messed up the application of Intel's P35 chipset so badly that only certain DDR2 ram modules will work, it would be time to find another board manufacture. The end. But in this case, (as far as I can tell) Gigibyte did just fine. I can see no real problems with this board. The BIG problem I see is that GB is recommending entirely useless (performance wise) high value (via an endorsement commission?) DDR2-800+ ram modules. This "Memory Standard" is absolute nonsense from a compatibility OR a performance view. Although it certainly makes big $$$ sense to ram manufactures that want to sell an unsuspecting public high-dollar ram . . . and then GB gets a cut? See the "DELL" name on a monitor on an episode of CSI last night? Same thing. It's an endorsement. You don't Have to get a Dell computer to solve the case . . . although this is exactly what Dell (and CSI) want you to believe. The "default internal preset" is a name I made up. Ram speed is determined by the FSB speed, times 2. That's the formula. FSB x 2 (DDR) = Ram Speed. A DDR2-800 designation only means that the ram COULD run at 800mhz . . . that is if it were driven by a 400mhz FSB. Most CPU/mobo combos there days run on a 'Default' 266mhz FSB (QDR'd 1066). That means that AnY ram stick that you put into the ram slot will run at 266 X 2 = 533mhz. To review: The FSB is defaulted to 266mhz and the ram is defaulted to DDR it (Double the Data Rate - - DDR - - of the FSB). These are the "default internal presets." I gotta come up with something else to call this stuff.The price of ram might be coming back up. I hadn't checked for a while, but keep an eye out for rebates. That'll get the 2 gig kits down into the $60 range. As far as Ram speed increases, you'll need scientific instruments see the difference. O/C-ers live for this stuff, but in the RW, will not be noticeable.

I see Sam has already given you an extensive run down on the virtues (or non in this case) of higher speed RAM. The one thing I will add is that you need to factor in what speed any RAM would run at your target overclock in relation to the max multiplier of the CPU you buy.Giving an extreme example the ole E6300, which could run up to 3.4GHz. Say you set your target OC at a realistic 3.2GHz, that means your bus speed at the max multipler of this CPU of 7x would have to be as high as 457MHz. With the lowest RAM divisor available of 2:1, that means the lowest speed you can run ANY RAM you have installed is 2 x 457 = 914MHz. In this case, I'd be getting at least 800MHz memory and maybe even 1066 memory to be sure that RAM wasn't limiting the OC.Another example is with an E6850 and a target OC of 3.6Ghz, the 9x max multiplier of this CPU requires a 400MHz bus and a mimimum 800MHz memory speed, hence 800MHz memory should be what you get.Re your RAM choice, this somewhat of a roll of the dice with Gigabyte boards as Sam suggests, and I bought mine based on comments of success on Newegg and OC forums. I see on Newegg that at least one person has had success with your proposed RAM / mobo combo.Re performance of my son's OCed E4300 versus my E6400 (not E6600 as you state, so I have 2M cache only just like the E4300), I give you exhibit A, my unfamous dynamic FSX benchmark, comparing the two systems at the same OC speed:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/176692.jpgHardware differences are that I am running a dedicated sound card versus his onboard sound, I run an 8000 GTS 640M versus his 7900 GTO 512M and I run 3G RAM versus his 2G RAM. My system beats my son's by a whopping 1.25 FPS average, which is not a bad result for his $117 chip hey? (Note we both run our systems at 3.2GHz now)If I haven't said it before, once you've met FSX's basic needs of 2G RAM, a mid range nVidia video card (7800 or better) or a high end ATI video card (2900), and at least two cores to spread out the FSX + addon + OS load, then CPU speed is the absolute major influence on FSX performance from there on up, no matter how you get there ;-)Gary

Hey, Sam, I've noticed RAM prices seemed to bottom out about ten days or so ago. You can still get deals on speeds higher than 667 that require abnormally higher (than 1.8 volts) voltages, but stock 667 at 1.8V, 2GB kits, are starting in the $76 to $85 range right now. It's partly the annual "back to school" price hikes, so far as I can see, but there's also a non-calendar market force, the business cycle, at work here. Low prices have discouraged production, so less supply - as those inventories got worked off - translates to higher prices. I don't see that correcting very soon. We may have seen the bottom for a significant time, but it's still mighty cheap. For now.The real trick here is timing the various pricing cycles against one another: rising Ram prices versus falling CPU prices and falling Mobo prices. I'm counting on RAM to rise less than CPU's and Mobo's fall. But it sure is wearing the beads out on my abacus. :-hah -Seadog

Sam.... interesting stuff in that link! The BIOS screenshots alone are making my head spin. :-) I'm about a quarter of the way through it and still forging ahead. The comments do appear to confirm my feeling that the P35-DS3R board is a good one for me. Actually, I've wondered if the "RAM compatibility" game isn't a huge profit-making scheme. I've noticed lots of people successfully running much less expensive RAM than the manufacturer claims to be "compatible" (and the practice isn't limited to RAM). If they want to make money this way, so be it. But for a guy like me, who's on the verge of making his first plunge into the world of overclockers' boards, it's confusing as heck. And if the manufacturers aren't bad enough, I have to factor out the comments by extreme overclockers and/or l33t teenagers who are either off base or irrelevant to what I'm after. Guess that's what makes me a n00b. ;) As far as RAM goes, the Egg has the following options on sale (after rebates) thru tonite: (all 2GB, 240-pin, heatspreaders, etc. etc.) $56 OCZ Gold Series OCZ2G8002GK ..... 5-5-5-12 ... CAS 5 ... 2.1V $65 GeIL GX22GB6400UDCA= ....... 4-4-4-? ... CAS 4 ... 1.9V-2.4V $71 Corsair XMS2 TWIN2X2048-6400C4 ..... 4-4-4-12 ... CAS 4 ... 2.1V I'm inclined to go with the $71 Corsair, mainly because it's a brand I trust and also because Gary happens to be using it successfully on two of his GB boards. If it gives me a few more overclocking options, that's icing on the cake. Newegg also has promo sales on other 2GB sets of RAM from $84 to $124, but I think the Corsair good enough for my needs. Picking up on your final point, I have zero interest in achieving high synthetic benchmarks that are essentially meaningless in the real world. I simply want to achieve excellent FSX performance at a reasonable cost. Thanks again.... Lee