After posting earlier tonight about the RAM market, I widened the net a bit to include multiple price comparison search sites and multiple PC hardware sites, and was shocked to see the RAM market was collapsing almost overnight, with shortages everywhere I looked except NewEgg. And, as said before, their prices were rising like a gorgeous souffle in a hot oven.That meant it was time to buy not only RAM but Mobo and CPU as well, bringing to bear 8 months of excruciatingly painstaking research and a heck of a lot of teaching and advice from good old d17s, a/k/a Sam.Settled on:2GB Mushkin DDR2 800 Model 996527, 5-5-5-12, 1.8V, for $101 at NewEgg (if it runs at 1.8V, it will POST on virtually any Mobo);an Enermax Vostok ECA3120 case at NewEgg for $85 minus $20 rebate expiring August 15;an Abit iP35 Pro Mobo for $185 at NewEgg minus $40 rebate only good at NewEgg and only available if you read the customer reviews and find the link, expiring August 16;an Intel Core2Duo E6750 at MWave for $206.50.I thought long and hard about whether to get a Rev G0 Q6600 (they're still hard to find), and just decided the heat factor and the apparent lack of extraordinary current performance gains in FSX, and the longer FSB reach to overclock it to the equivalent of the 6750, and the GTL Ref voltage issue (that one's a sleeper), not to mention the $80 premium, meant that it was smarter to wait for a Penryn Quad, since the 6750 overclocks like a scalded dog on stock cooling. See today's review at Overclockers.com, for instance.My abacus beads are cooling down, but it's sunset for the plastic, melting as we speak.I had already bought an OCZ Stealth XStream PSU locally for a net $78 after MIR, and I've picked up a Creative XFI Gamer for $56 after MIR locally, as well as some fine Altec Lansing FX5051 speakers on sale at Dell today for $180 (great sound for a Boomer, and wonderful controls). And I've stockpiled a trio of Seagate 160 GB SATA's over the last year or so.After years of partial upgrading, this is the total remake. All that's left is to buy another copy of XP and select a video card. And, yes, Sam, I am mindful of that triple coming up at the end of the year.Anyway, those are my choices so far, and the reasons for making them and the reasons for making them NOW. Getting the Abit "Snake" for only $145 net was some serious icing on the cake. Rebate ends August 16, and is hidden in the customer reviews. Guess they wish they hadn't offered it after all the enthusiastic outside site reviews climbed on board.Everyone has their own budget and their own desires, and my choices fit mine, but I'm here to tell you the RAM market is in a serious turn-around situation right now, much more serious than I had thought. I bought the whole kit and caboodle because you have to have it all to find out what doesn't work within the warranty return policy periods. That means I have to get that dang PCIe video card toute suite so I can run the whole rig. Any further advice on that, Sam? Others? Do you really think a DX9 card is sufficient to await not only the release of the the three-bagger but also for its price to re-enter the atmosphere and become a reasonably astute purchase? I'm seriously leaning toward the 8800 with 320MB, but talk to me.-Seadog

Hey Dog - NIce system you've got going there! You will have fun putting it together.I just got mine up and running last night. Bought now for the same reasons you did - prices are going up and stock is in short supply.I went the 'other route' so it will be interesting to compare notes.I did get the q6600 g0 with a P5N32-E SLI mobo - 2G Mushkin XP2-8500 996535 ram - 850W Thermaltake PSU - Thermaltake Kandalf LCS case with built in liquid cooling - couple of Raptor drives in Raid 0 plus a system drive to dual boot XP/Vista and a 500G backup drive. Only thing I'm waiting for is the 8800 GTS 640 video card.Got it assembled with a standard video card last night and so far so good. Stock temps at idle with the liquid cooler are 25C which also was the ambient temp. Should get better as the thermal compound sets.Will get all the bios flashing, mobo driver updating etc done and then start playing with the overclock. Once that's done, I'll start installing FSX and the other goodies.Sounds like you and I will have some good notes to compare down the road.VicVisit the Virtual Pilot's Centerwww.flightadventures.comhttp://www.hifisim.com/Active Sky V6 Proud SupporterRadar Contact Supporter: http://www.jdtllc.com/

>astute purchase? I'm seriously leaning toward the 8800 with>320MB, but talk to me.>Ok, for FSX, I would want more than 320mb of video memory on any new card I bought.I'd say right now the 8800GTS with 640 is looking like a better bang-for-the-buck.Regarding ram. What problem with ram supply? Regarding the latest "run on ram" (that phrase is an inside joke dating from the early 1990's among a couple of my hardware friends...), we have seen these things come and go before and I expect the same this time.$101 for 2 gigs of quality ram like Mushkin is a great deal. I paid about $200 for the same in January 2006. I doubt the price for 2 gigs is going to double. Just a temporary thing. I'm curious where you heard there was/is a ram price spike?RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

>Regarding ram. What problem with ram supply? Regarding the>latest "run on ram" (that phrase is an inside joke dating from>the early 1990's among a couple of my hardware friends...), we>have seen these things come and go before and I expect the>same this time.>>$101 for 2 gigs of quality ram like Mushkin is a great deal. >I paid about $200 for the same in January 2006. I doubt the>price for 2 gigs is going to double. Just a temporary thing. >I'm curious where you heard there was/is a ram price spike?Hi Rhett -The description of conditions in the RAM market are my own observations of:declining number of rebates;absence of rebates on non-exotic RAM;absence of a large and varied selection of RAM on web store sites other than NewEgg;rising prices for non-rebated RAM.I think spike would suggest more suddenness than what I'm observing, although the changes I've observed have occurred pretty suddenly in less than two weeks. Also, it's a matter of widespread commentary for the past three months or so that RAM modules or chips had hit all time low wholesale prices and that manufacturers were responding by scaling back production.Like you, I think this is a business cycle event that will pass. I just have the gut feeling it won't be back toward the bottom that we have been enjoying soon enough for me to have ridden the cycle up and back down again while I was waiting to build a box for a program I bought last October and have yet to use. I'm patient, but there are limits, and I've reached mine.So that's all there is to the RAM business - it's just my opinion from the facts I've observed.Thanks for your input on the video card.And Vic - I'm a pretty slow builder, but I look forward to giving you some comparisons. Before Thanksgiving.-Seadog

>And Vic - I'm a pretty slow builder, but I look forward to>giving you some comparisons. Before Thanksgiving.>>-SeadogLOL! I'll hold you to that.BTW, I tried the Evga 8800GTS 320 on my old system and with the 22" monitor set at 1680x1050 I regularly used all of the 320M flying around. Decided to avail myself of the Evga stepup program and traded in for the 640.And just a note re memory - last month on the Mushkin site - 2G 996535 RAM was $145 - this month is was $187. It was cheaper to get it from Newegg this time.VicVisit the Virtual Pilot's Centerwww.flightadventures.comhttp://www.hifisim.com/Active Sky V6 Proud SupporterRadar Contact Supporter: http://www.jdtllc.com/

Good advise about the Vcards. It looks like the G92 will be released in November. http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41694So will the first Penryns: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/08/15/in...yn_xeon_launch/And so too, will be the X38 chipset: http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?id=15739&catid=2The X38 will support the G92's PCI-e 2.0 format. No worries there because this does not change the interface. It only provides even more (currently) unnecessary bandwidth potential. The new standard also provides increased power availability through the PCI-e slot. Second power plugs will still be available, if necessary. However PCI-e 2.0 will get this extra power directly through the socket. The G92 will be fully backwards compatible with our current PCI-e 1.1 standard.My impression is that a great part of a Vcard's job is to translate data into pixels. If one is gonna be flight simmin' on a 42" 1080p at 19x10 . . . or THTGin' at 38x10, that's a LoT of pixels to push. The G92 might be just the deal for that application. But if a more normal setup is being used (like a single 22 or 24" monitor), a good strong 88 might just be plenty. I'm guessing that 88 would be a good choice. And congrats on the system. Excellent, well reasoned choices all 'round.

>>So will the first Penryns: >>http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/08/15/in...yn_xeon_launch/>Sam my understanding of the first Penryns is that they will be Xeons...and Xeon's are server chips. So (Operons aside), wouldn't it be a not-so-good idea to build an FS rig with a Xeon? I was thinking of the later Penryns, like the ones released in Q1 2008, as being the chips designed for specifically for desktop use. They might give better performance per dollar...??RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

The current Xeon X32X0s are 775 socket CPUs that just drop into any 775 socket . . bios willing. Most are OK. These are just re-branded Q6600s . . . and a bit cheaper because they are marketed to a more savvy audience.It's still unclear if the 1st Penryn Xeons will be 775 chips. Just can't tell yet. But if they are, they will be a supertweaked, Core2, Q6X00/G0. That'd be the one to get. For the adventurous, the $250, X3210/Go would be the smartest choice for a Quad right now . . . that is if you could an find one.

I finished the project, buying another copy of XP Pro and a video card.I thoroughly agree that a 640 MB 8800 GTS would be some sweet pie to tuck into, but the minimum $345 price got me skittish. I remember Sam's advice about buying a cheap place holder card for the interim until the big dogs are released late this year - he suggested a 7600GT. Now, you can get one of those for roughly $80, but they are thin beer indeed.A place holder card has to be relatively inexpensive because its purpose in life is to be discarded after a brief period. Spend a lot and you're just wasting money. For another $21 I decided to get a Chaintec 8600GT, net of an MIR expiring today, of course. It gets a frame or two more on Tom's GPU charts in FSX at the resolution my monitor runs, over the 7600GT, with the same amount of RAM and the same bit path and has GDDR3 memory. It has a large, quiet heatsink and fan, mounted securely with 4 screws, and runs at reference frequencies. And it is DX10.0 compatible.So it's a cheapie with some minor panache and some staying power, all for a net $101. Now I have to watch the market and see 8800's fall in price as the new 9's are released, and hope there's one of those at a decent price not too far out, otherwise settling for the 8800GTS with 640 or so MB. So that's how this consumer computes, a little from Column A and a little from Column B, and with gratitude to all for their patient and sage counsel. Cheers. :-beerchug -Seadog

That 2nd card's gonna come in handy. When you get the Big Dog, swap the 8600 into the secondary slot. By then, you may have collected another monitor or 2. Right now, I'm running VHHX approaches on my new 42" at 1920x1080, with an outside view in the ($100!) 19" LCD monitor and the PMDG's FMC in my old 17" CRT. 3 monitors. Looks like a real hootin' hodge-podge, till you turn the lights down for a night approach. Then the audience just gets real quite. Finally came 'round that final corner with style and grace. I'm playing the instant replay as we speak. Is this all worth it? Woah! What an amazing hobby we have here.

It's so much fun, it otta be an illegal game in an opium den. The mind reels with all the permutations and scheming, all to the end of that quiet audience - even if it's an audience of one. Can't wait to squeeze the Arctic Silver and Engage. Thanks again. :-wave -Seadog

>It's so much fun, it otta be an illegal game in an opium den.heheh. Send that to Microsoft's marketing dept.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

Wow, I must be a cheapskate. To me a placeholder card is a $40 Geforce 5-series. :DNow, THAT'S a card I could leave in the driveway, back my truck over it and not cry too much.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

>That 2nd card's gonna come in handy. When you get the Big>Dog, swap the 8600 into the secondary slot. By then, you may>have collected another monitor or 2. Right now, I'm running>VHHX approaches on my new 42" at 1920x1080, with an outside>view in the ($100!) 19" LCD monitor and the PMDG's FMC in my>old 17" CRT. 3 monitors. Looks like a real hootin'>hodge-podge, till you turn the lights down for a night>approach. Then the audience just gets real quite. >>Finally came 'round that final corner with style and grace.>I'm playing the instant replay as we speak. Is this all worth>it? Woah! What an amazing hobby we have here. Sam,Superb hobby indeed. Can you paste a few 'pic's' of your night approaches? I'm sure we would all enjoy seeing them.jack

That's not a video card; that's a paperweight.:-lol I have to actually be able to use the doggone thing without tearing my hair out.-Seadog