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jackcnd

POSTED: New Nvidia GTX280 FSX Benchmarks...

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I like the comment about 'newer drivers' in the Tom's review.I take it they don't know that Nvidia doesn't give two hoots about performance in FSX?The last few driver releases have been less than stellar.

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I would say, give it some time--The raw hardware specs (transistor count, core clock, streams, bandwidth, etc.) for the GTX 200 series are very very high--so I'd think and hope that the poor performance was due to driver immaturity.In recent years I've gotten more and more concerned about Tom's Hardware's testing, too. I hope they're not slipping on the quality control there...As to whether the driver immaturity gets worked out is, well, up to nVidia, and Glenn is spot on, nVidia has not done a good job with FSX.RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

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Funny,.the 8800GTX 768 has been left out of those tests but at least this time Tom included the ultra wonder why, goes against his kickback routineIts as I have said all along, the best FSX card is the 8800GTX/Ultra and it will continue to be that way until next gen hits the streets and is dev'ed in driversthe 9000 series is a marketing joke and unless there is some serious driver issues that will get fixed it looks like the next level is a joke too. We are talking about FSX here.. not other apps

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I have known the Tom routine since his BBS days.. More than once he got his hands caught in the cookie jar for kickbackshes gotten a bit slicker about it in the last few years.. you have to know the tests and the hardware then reverse engineerer his angle... it always goes back to something that is out of place and the only reason for it being out of place is behind the scene discussions before posting a report.LOL!He included the 8800 Ultra in this... Why did they not include that card and the 640/768 GTS/X versions with the big FPS report? Simple, they dont want you to think you should buy older hardware, why? Because someone asked them to not post the numbers that may upstage the new cardschi-ching! $$ = Thanks TomAs for the card.. its like anything else that is new... it will take time to mature the code for the electronics.. same with Nehalem. When DD3 was first released and boards were on the market it took 3-6 months to get the BIOS's and boards worked out. First releases are when they figure out the duck-ups and get them fixed.

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>Its as I have said all along, the best FSX card is the>8800GTX/Ultra and it will continue to be that way until next>gen hits the streets and is dev'ed in drivers>As for the card.. its like anything else that is new... it>will take time to mature the code for the electronics.. same>with Nehalem. When DD3 was first released and boards were on>the market it took 3-6 months to get the BIOS's and boards>worked out. First releases are when they figure out the>duck-ups and get them fixed. So which is which then? You first say that the 8800GTX/Ultra is and will continue to be the way until next gen hits the streets, then you go on to say that like anything else, it takes time for the code to mature. This implies that the GTX 280 will be the way to go once the drivers mature.______________Efrain RuizLiveDISPATCHhttp://www.livedispatch.org

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I thought I was quite clear... sorry if I was not its an unknown at this pointUntil the card/drivers mature and we see more reports that correctly compare the card to what is being used, as in a fair compare of them all.. we won't knowbut I would not buy anything right now.. think about it, spend a buttload of cash on a card to find out in August the ATi release kicks it... or in a month or so find out the 8800GTX/Ultra are still the best FSX card?Not worth the riskIts better to wait till tech shift in Q4 is reviewedIn the mean time that 8800GTX/s is still punching the competition pretty hard and you dont have to spend 5-600 to get one.

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>I thought I was quite clear... its an unknown at this point.>>Until the card/drivers mature and we see more reports that>correctly compare the card to what is being used, as in a fair>compare of them all.. we won't know>>>but I would not buy anything right now.. think about it, spend>a buttload of cash on a card to find out in August the ATi>release kicks it... or in a month or so find out the>8800GTX/Ultra are still the best FSX card?>>Not worth the risk>>Its better to wait till tech shift in Q4 is reviewed>>In the mean time that 8800GTX/s is still punching the>competition pretty hard and you dont have to spend 5-600 to>get one. Oh ok, I got you know... I am considering the GTX 280, because it would only cost me right now just $70, by "stepping up" my 9800 GX2 via EVGA's step up program.I know that the 9800 GX2 is extremely fast and the GTX 280 does not slam dunk it by any means, but what is attracting me is that 512-bit memory interface and the 1GB of ram. My 9800 GX2 only has a 256-bit interface and it's 1GB is really 512MB x 2 (shared between GPUs).Having read and closely applied all of your tweaks for FSX, I now that you really harp on the wider memory interfaces for FSX.What you think? In my case, should I go ahead and step up to the GTX 280 and hope the drivers mature? Now that the GTX 280 is out, I really doubt NVIDIA will continue to put emphasize on drivers for the 9800 series as they want to promote the newer cards.______________Efrain RuizLiveDISPATCHhttp://www.livedispatch.org

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I would expect that buss to provide the punch+ of the G80 core and right now its probably a driver issue but its really too soon to tellI have not looked at the specs either.. if its a PCIe 2.x version card that may also play into new test results. I know the 3870x2 needs that standard for full function even though they said it was backwards compatible, it does not run as well on the old PCIe standard and on some PCIe 1.x motherboards it will not boot at all.I do not know enough about the card to make that callHowever FSX will never use more than 512MB as far as I am aware... except perhaps in some type of SLi mode, which again I can not comment on because I do not use SLi and everything I have seen and read indicates the cost/performance ratio on that one is not worth the difference when you are applying FSX to that purchase.If you have an upgrade option that offers a cost savings.. I would still wait and see what comes out of nvidia driver development and FSXThe cards I am interested in are the ones due out later this year. In the mean time the 8800GTX does just fine and nothing I will plug into that slot is going to be worth upgrading to and pay full price, even the 280.

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>The cards I am interested in are the ones due out later this>year. In the mean time the 8800GTX does just fine and nothing>I will plug into that slot is going to be worth upgrading to>and pay full price, even the 280. Nick, I'm trying to get it clear in my mind just exactly what is due later this year. Are you referring to the ATI 4850 and 4870? Any others from either Nvidia or ATI due later this year?-Doug

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>>I would expect that buss to provide the punch+ of the G80 core>and right now its probably a driver issue but its really too>soon to tell>>I have not looked at the specs either.. if its a PCIe 2.x>version card that may also play into new test results. I know>the 3870x2 needs that standard for full function even though>they said it was backwards compatible, it does not run as well>on the old PCIe standard and on some PCIe 1.x motherboards it>will not boot at all.>>I do not know enough about the card to make that call>>However FSX will never use more than 512MB as far as I am>aware... except perhaps in some type of SLi mode, which again>I can not comment on because I do not use SLi and everything I>have seen and read indicates the cost/performance ratio on>that one is not worth the difference when you are applying FSX>to that purchase.>>If you have an upgrade option that offers a cost savings.. I>would still wait and see what comes out of nvidia driver>development and FSX>>The cards I am interested in are the ones due out later this>year. In the mean time the 8800GTX does just fine and nothing>I will plug into that slot is going to be worth upgrading to>and pay full price, even the 280. >>>>I will probably bite the bullet and go for the step up program. I still have 39 days left on it and if I decide to step up, I only need to pay $70.I have a strong feeling that as the drivers mature, it will really excel.______________Efrain RuizLiveDISPATCHhttp://www.livedispatch.orgCooler Master cosmos SDFI LP UT P35 T2R (3-17-2008 BIOS) | E8400 @ 4GHz (500MHz x 8) | 2 x 2GB OCZ Flex II PC9200EVGA GeForce 9800 GX2 @ 738|1845|1150Two (2) WD3200AAKS 320GB (Operating System RAID-0) | Two (2) WD3200AAKS 320GB (Flight Simulator RAID-0)Corsair CM PSU-750TX | Asus 20X DVD

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With the real possibility of the 4870 running the same as a 280 at 1/2 the price, yes.. thats oneI have heard a few well founded/sourced rumors about October/November for some as of yet unnanounced product from both camps... all my snitches are unusually quiet right now and I think a lot of that has to do with all camps gearing up for Q4/Q1

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Therein lies the problem.If Nvidia show as little interest in FSX as they have done so far then I wouldn't hold your breath regarding new drivers 'maturing' to aid in FSX performance any time soon.

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Thanks, Nick. I see a reference here and there to a release date for the next ATI cards being June 25, so we ought to know a bit more fairly soon.Reading the entire text of the Tom's review of the new Nvidia cards is actually fairly depressing. {As I've read elsewhere today, they aren't fully DX 10.1 compliant, and won't say in which ways they do comply with the .1 additions to the 10 standard.} The cards are power hogs and hot, etched at 65 nanometers, and are noisy as a blast furnace when running 3 D. Part of the hot air exhaust is directed into the case. Their performance doesn't scale arithmetically with the increased transistor count, which means you get diminishing returns for the cost. No maturation of drivers can overcome most of those issues.Then comes price. Wow. Nvidia surely is proud of these.The overall feeling I'm left with after reading that review is that Nvidia has resorted to brute force rather than sophistication with this generation of GPUs, and that they haven't been particularly successful at it. And it took them a long time to get there. Not exactly something to be proud of.-Doug

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>>I have heard a few well founded/sourced rumors about>October/November for some as of yet unnanounced product from>both camps... all my snitches are unusually quiet right now>and I think a lot of that has to do with all camps gearing up>for Q4/Q1I

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>I have a strong feeling that as the drivers mature, it will>really excel.>Sure performance will most likely get better with future driver releases; just don

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NaaaaaaWe wont know anything until July/AugustThat ATi card due out on the 25th is not the one to compete with the 280. The 4780 wont be here until August but we should start seeing numbers in July.I just dont see any reason to trade a G80 for anything until at least then.. and I would still wait a bit longer too.ATi is finished with single core cards now.. from now on its all multi-core with them and as I suspected they are focusing on the entertainment market with AMD. AMD's best bet big money is getting their proc married to their GPU and not worry about the processor and card race

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>>I have a strong feeling that as the drivers mature, it will>>really excel.>>>>Sure performance will most likely get better with future>driver releases; just don

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This and the news (such as it is) on the CPU front all suggest that 2008 is a year of transition to different technologies and manufacturing processes. That would not be so bad, if we could look forward to 2009 as a year of progress. Getting some decent competition back into the market at the high end is what we really need. And it might actually be good for competition if Nvidia have wrong-footed themselves with this one.Tim

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>I am aware of that but as of right now, I am being plagued>with the micro-stuttering associated with SLI cards. That is>the biggest drawback associated with SLI solutions and the>9800 GX2 is no exception.The

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>>I am aware of that but as of right now, I am being plagued>>with the micro-stuttering associated with SLI cards. That is>>the biggest drawback associated with SLI solutions and the>>9800 GX2 is no exception.>>>The

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>And I am not the only one, as I have visited various gaming>forums and it seems that this is one of the inherited problems>with SLI configurations.I started to experiment with SLI back in 2005 when the 7800 GTX

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Last year my curiosity got the better of me, too, and I bought the same EVGA ultra card that I see you have already got. I was pleasantly surprised by the improvement on my 8800GTS.I hope you'll let the rest of us know what difference you notice with your GTX280 when it arrives.TimPS: Sorry, this is a reply to the wrong post.

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I read a review of the 280/260 yesterday at Guru3D comparing it to the 9800 and several other cards. Interesting to read but the problem is I have a tough time relating to any of the results as I don't run any other software games besides FSX which they never use to test with.I'm certainly no expert on the benchmarking business but when I read their reviews on any hardware related topic I come away with the feeling that their summaries of any hardware are "reasonably" fairly balanced, not too much axe grinding (maybe that's the impression I get compared to some other sites reviews). But again as I haven't got a clue about the technical side I could be very wrong.Any thoughts on that site as a fair source of info?

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>I read a review of the 280/260 yesterday at Guru3D comparing>it to the 9800 and several other cards. Interesting to read>but the problem is I have a tough time relating to any of the>results as I don't run any other software games besides FSX>which they never use to test with.>>I'm certainly no expert on the benchmarking business but when>I read their reviews on any hardware related topic I come away>with the feeling that their summaries of any hardware are>"reasonably" fairly balanced, not too much axe grinding (maybe>that's the impression I get compared to some other sites>reviews). But again as I haven't got a clue about the>technical side I could be very wrong.>>Any thoughts on that site as a fair source of info?Also I see in the review that they only deal with the detail setting.So what about all the other fsx option settings? They all will have an affect too.

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