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FTD1949

Vista memory question

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All, I recently moved to Vista Ultimate 32 bit. I know 64 bit would have been better but I was able to get the 32 bit version for a very low price through my employer. At any rate I have 2G of ram on the way and my question is how to best utilize it. Should I just add 1 stick or add both. I do understand that because it's a 32 bit OS it will only utilize a bit beyond 3G.CraigLian Li PC 65B CaseCorsair HX Series CMPSU-620HX 620W Power SupplyPlextor PX-810SA/SW-BL DVD/CDGiagabyte GA-P35-DS3RCrucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)Arctic Freezer 7 ProIntel E6850 Core 2 Duo 3.0GHz 4M shared L2 Cache @ 3.6 GHzEVGA 7950GT KO 512mb 169.21_forceware whqlSeagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATASeagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATAVista Ultimate SP1

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I would have thought both (assuming you would be looking a 4 x 1gb sticks in total) so you can run your RAM in dual channel mode ... thus maximising your performance.Andrew

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Make sure you set the 3G switch for the operating system too. With 3+Gs of physical ram onboard, FSX is gonna want to use it. Without that switch, you'll get lots of those dreaded out of memory (OOM)crashes.

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It's often a good idea to install the RAM in matched pairs in order to get two 64-bit channels from the RAM instead of just one. This doubles memory bandwidth to 12.8GB/s for DDR-2 800 instead of just 6.4GB/s.You won't be able to use all 4GBs but having them shouldn't hurt, unless a program tries to address more than ~3GB of RAM. That's the drawback with buying an OEM version of Windows - if you need to switch from 32-bit to 64-bit (or the other way around) you have to buy a new license. When you buy a retail version, you can use either version. Of course, the retail version is often more than twice as expensive as OEM...in Sweden Ultimate (although home premium is enough for virtually everyone) Retail is $440, over twice the price of my videocard and 7 times the price of my CPU.

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Anyone with a 32bit op system AnD 4Gs of physical memory (sans the 3G switch) is Especially vulnerable to OOMs. Additionally, the second 2Gs of physical ram will NeVer be used by FS under this configuration.So, do NoT install 4Gs of physical ram for a FS dedicated box (32bit op system/sans 3G switch). The game will not use it anyway.Remember, OOMs are caused by a 'stratch-pad' number the op system tracks as a physical ram usage forecasting tool (call it VS for lack of a better term). If a 32bit system has 4Gs of physical ram, it will see ~3.5Gs . . . and so will the program. The program will see there's plenty of physical ram available and tell VS "I'm gonna want more of that free ram in a little bit." VS will obediently schedule that future use. Additionally, VS always runs above the current physical ram usage. Between these 2 dynamics, VS will then ramp above 2Gs and bamm, OOM.Physical ram usage may still be at only 1.5Gs . . . but the 4G user still had fully 2Gs of physical ram available. What's up with that? Dis is what's up with dat.However, with only 2Gs of physical ram on board, it is less likely VS will exceed 2Gs for the FS application. After all, FS is competing for physical ram just like the op system and other processes. The op system Does know how much physical ram is on board and will divi up this physical ram as it sees fit. In this case, there may only be 1.5Gs of physical ram available - At All - for FS to covet. VS will look at FS's current physical ram usage, and forecast from there. The further FS's physical ram usage stays away from 2Gs, the Less likely VS will schedule above 2Gs (and OOM the game).If a 32bit user does Not want to use the 3G switch try1) Reducing physical ram to 2Gs. Anything above 2Gs of physical ram will not be used anyway (for FS). As soon as FS gets close to 2Gs of physical ram usage, VS will go Above 2Gs and OOM the game. 4Gs of physical ram onboard only makes OOMs MoRe likely. It will NeVeR be used (by FS) and thereby provide No advantage (to FS).2) Burn up some physical ram with some other (non-CPU intensive) app. If the physical ram is Not available (by whatever means) FS will not tell VS to schedule it.But a 64bit op system is still the real answer. This will take the bar to 4Gs/VS. OOMs can still occur at 4Gs/VS, but it takes some real determination.

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Interesting Sam, I've had 4 gig's from the get-go with FSX and I've had 2 OOM's total and both were when I had inadvertently maxed my autogen after doing airport design work - other than that - notta. And I still run settings mostly maxed except autogen along with loads of traffic. When I tried the 3gb/switch I had some undesirable side effects with my XP Pro 32. So...do you think I should still remove 2 gig's? It might help me with my OC and stability. Also, I have copies of both Vista 64 and XP Pro 64 waiting to be used, do you recommend one over the other and is it worth migrating to 64bit for FSX (performance wise)? Been very happy with XP and keep hearing about woes with Vista. Thanks. Regards, Kendall#1: E8500 @ 3.95 - HyperTX2 Gigabyte P35-DS3L 4GB Ballistix Tracers PC6400 EVGA 8800GT - XG's 174.74 Seagate 250GB 7200.11 CH Yoke/Pedals/Saitek Throttle Dual Monitor: Dell 2405/1905 #2: Dell 8400 3.2 H.T. 3GB PC4200 - X800XT Diamond Xtreme/Logitech X-530's

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As we were discussing, a program's VS level runs above that programs's physical memory load. The trick is to keep physical memory load as far away from VS's max limit as possible. >> So...do you think I should still remove 2 gig's? If you had no OOMs with 4Gs of physical memory installed (without the 3G switch), that tells us that FS NeVeR had more than 2Gs of physical memory loaded for the FS program . . . even though ~ 3.5Gs were available. For FS, those extra 2Gs are NoT being used. They can be removed without any effect on FS . . . except to reduce the chances of further OOMs. However Vista 64 runs fine. That's the terminating action for OOMs. Additionally, with the VS limit at 4Gs you will AlwaYs see FS using greater than 2Gs of physical memory, and beyond 3Gs on occasion. That's gotta be better than 'page-file-ing' that data. Other than that, it will provide No additional performance benefit. The main drivers are all available, but old, nitch devices can be a problem. For instance, I have an old USB thumb drive that does not have (even) a Vista driver. It still pays to keep an old 286 machine up and running on XP.

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> That's gotta be better than 'page-file-ing' that data.Yep, most definately. > It still pays to keep an old 286 machine up and running on XP. That we can do. I think it's time to take the plunge.Regards, Kendall#1: E8500 @ 3.95 - HyperTX2 Gigabyte P35-DS3L 4GB Ballistix Tracers PC6400 EVGA 8800GT - XG's 174.74 Seagate 250GB 7200.11 CH Yoke/Pedals/Saitek Throttle Dual Monitor: Dell 2405/1905 #2: Dell 8400 3.2 H.T. 3GB PC4200 - X800XT Diamond Xtreme/Logitech X-530's

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Sam,Let me see if I understand you correctly. If I have 4G of RAM onboardwithout the 3G switch then the 3.5G that Vista sees won't be availableto FSX? If I have the 3G switch enabled then FSX will be able to useit? Even on a 32 bit OS?I know that on my machine FSX runs just fine with 2G (I had problemswith 4G installed; don't know if I just had some bad RAM or what)CraigLian Li PC 65B CaseCorsair HX Series CMPSU-620HX 620W Power SupplyPlextor PX-810SA/SW-BL DVD/CDGiagabyte GA-P35-DS3RCrucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)Arctic Freezer 7 ProIntel E6850 Core 2 Duo 3.0GHz 4M shared L2 Cache @ 3.6 GHzEVGA 7950GT KO 512mb 169.21_forceware whqlSeagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATASeagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATAVista Ultimate SP1

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Basically, yes. The program's physical ram use will drive the program's VS number. VS Always runs above physical (200-500Mb). Without the 3G switch, anywhere above 1.5Gs of physical ram load is in the danger zone for an OOM (1.5 + .51 = 2.01 = OOM).It doesn't matter HoW much physical ram is installed. The 3G switch moves this whole description up to 3Gs. A 64 bit op system move this whole description up to 4Gs.Installing 4Gs of physical ram on a modern mobo ill never cause problems, it only might not provide benefit.

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>Anyone with a 32bit op system AnD 4Gs of physical memory (sans>the 3G switch) is Especially vulnerable to OOMs. Additionally,Maybe but why would you not use the 3G switch if you have 4GB on board? Must be mad.I know the difference it makes. Maybe not so much to FSX itself but just try and load something else such as ASX or other 3rd party stuff and watch the swap file kick in and drag the PC down with it. Use the switch and it all goes away.Sure Vista 64 may be a better answer but Vista 32 does the same job if you use the switch and have 4GB on board.John Veldthuishttp://www.virtualpilots.org/signatures/vpa475.png

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