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Gavin

AN24!!! At last!!!

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Guy'sSamdim's long awaited AN-24 has been released. And it's a big one.As I have to rely on the horrendously slow download speeds offered by the evil, monopolistic Telekomunikacje Polska, I'd be greatful if any of you with 21st Century internet technology who have downloaded and installed this aircraft, could tell me if everything's ok with it.Don't want to pay for 2-3 hours of downloading only to have to re-do it all with V1.1Though if it's up to the Russians' normal standard, I'm sure it'll be perfect......as usual.Thanks in advance!Gavin

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I downloaded it, went to unzip but I got a "bad CRC" error. Downloaded the file again, same problem.I can't find the file in the library here now, so I suppose it's been removed because the zip file was corrupted.

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Yes, it must have been removed- the d/l link on the Avsim front page is referring to a file that doesn't exist.Any mirrors? The RFG AN-24RV from FS2000 days remains one of my all-time fave sim aircraft. ChasW

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I, too, got the CRC error messages when I unzipped the plane onto my disk, so I tend to agree that it was just removed temporarily in order to fix this problem. In fact, FS would load up correctly even with the faulty An-24, and although I have not actually tried flying her yet, the aircraft preview window would display her correctly, with the exception of certain texture files on two of the provided versions.I hope this won't be a major problem to fix, because I'm really curious why people seem to be raving so much about that FS2K An-24, to which I understand Dimitri's new version is supposed to be the successor. :D

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Hi All,The files that are corrupt are as follows,! F:antonov_an-24b.zip: CRC failed in Antonov An-24Btexture.b70an24dvigatel.bmp. The file is corruptThis file seems to be a engine nacelle, so all I did was copy one from the other texture.! F:antonov_an-24b.zip: CRC failed in Antonov An-24Btexture.b80kryshkiShassi.bmp. The file is corruptThis file seems to also be from the nacelle area, and I just copied the same file from another texture.! F:antonov_an-24b.zip: CRC failed in GAUGESMAH.AN24.IND_1_0001.GAU. The file is corruptThis gauge file is the same as MAH.AN24.IND_1_0002.GAU, so I just copied 0002 and renamed it 0001.All in all with this done it seems to work fine, so I you don't want to wait for it to be reuploaded, then try this, if not don't :)Dan.

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GuysThanks for your help.I'll wait until, hopefully, a new version is uploaded.Thanks again.Gavin

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Yes .. the file has been removed due to the corrupt files contained within. I have emailed the author requesting he reupload the file.

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Well, it's back in the library - but still corrupted.ChasW

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I wouldn't bother. Emperors new clothes.Same old FS98 panel (it was rubbish then, and it's rubbish now), no throttle panel, no 2d panel views, no 3d cockpit), same old non-FS2002 specific sound files (no startups). Exterior sounds are so quiet you'd think it was a modern turboprop not one of the noisiest commercial aircraft ever made. The flight model is all over the shop (I could make a list, but you get the picture). The corrupt files are the least of the worries. Oh, and where's the smoke effects? Haven't they ever seen one of these babies taking off?Now, you might think thats a bit petty, given that its freeware and all, but the documents tell you this is a freeware `preview` of a payware release due in April 2003.Well I'll wait for the payware release, which had better be substantially better than this offering to perusade me to part with cash so soon before FS2004 is released. Especially as far superior products will be on hand from DreamFleet, FSD International and the like by then.And the installation had better be right for that, or else I can't see it selling. At all.Still looking for a good AN24...ChasW

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*sigh* .. same seven corrupt files. I'll remove it tomorrow. I'm off to bed.

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Yes, I wouldn't worry about it Rob. No-one who HAS downloaded it will be keeping it long. The AI version serves a purpose, but as a shop window to encourage purchasers for the payware release I would say this freeware is somewhere bordering disaster and catastrophe.ChasW

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Brian, Note that I made a VERY CLEAR DISTINCTION that the comments that I made were in the light of the fact that this `freeware` is in fact nothing more than a `feature-light` version of payware, due to be released shortly. As you so obviously missed that bit in going for my jugular, and the file has once again been pulled from the library so no-one can now check that it is not made clear in the readme that was visible via the on-screen download (the information is buried deeper in the readme) that this is nothing more than free advertising, I forgive you. Just don't do it again, there's a good chap.Now, that beggers the bigger question as to whether this aircraft even deserves the sobriquet `freeware` when it is really nothing of the sort. I personally think this sort of thing is getting out of hand, when commercial developers can hijack the term `freeware` for their own ends. It creates the kind of loin-stirring you're suffering from Brian, as a genuine noted freeware developer. I stand by my claims and will even increase them by saying that if this is the best they can offer to simmers to whet their appetite, they should stick to AI aircraft where it doesn't matter how they fly, how the cockpits look, just so long as they fly pretty patterns and talk to ATC.And yes, Brian, I do expect my PAYWARE to fly right. That's what I'm paying for. And I don't expect FS98 panels, and corrupted gauges that were actually created by another designer who is sadly not credited. And that is why I refuse to judge this `freeware` by the same yardstick and with the same allowances, that I might use for genuine freeware.Clear?ChasW

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Chas, I, too, am growing sick of these new payware groups trying to make people buy their products by releasing totally incomplete, and thoroughly un-tested 'trials.' Only the MAAM-Sim B-25 trial ACTUALLY helped influence me to buy that release (though I was already about to make up my mind to do so.) That I3D group's B-1B, while it included a nicely-done external model, was incomplete, problem-ridden, or just un-tested in many areas (take the 2d panel and VC for instance). Now, take Mr. Samborski, here, of An-24 infamy. He released a few nice models of Russian aircraft, but had anyone really heard of him until a few months ago? Here we have him attempting to woo us into paying him money to 'support his hobby', but all I see is a man playing a broken guitar and singing with a sore throat. Now, back to I3D. How many people had downloaded Jamal Ingram's F-16? Who even knew he released an FSDS F-16? Who's even heard of Jamal Ingram? Well, this man is I3D's modeller. Did he REALLY have a reputation? Well, no... Not what I would call a 'payware reputation.' Who are 'payware devlopers?' To me, these are people like Steve Small and Rob Young who were noted freeware developers whose projects just kept getting more and more complex. So complex, in fact, and the urge to complete them so great, that the hobby was an honest drain on their real lives.I must also ask, 'Where is the new talent going?' Here are SO many new developers with immense talent that are being drawn to the prospect of a quick buck. It's almost like someone gave a seminar on making money through computer flight simulation, and the 'prospect' was presented SO well, that few could resist. What's happening? I see it as the decline of the freeware community. Why are so many out to make a quick buck/pound/franc, when they have no reputation to speak of? Many of these developers still are new to the tools, and may not be able to produce what most could define as PAYWARE.To conclude, I can state one important thing. GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER BEFORE YOU TRY TO MAKE A BUSINESS OUT OF YOUR HOBBY.

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Thanks David, for recognising the distinction. Removing the obviously confusing `freeware` from the conversation, let's consider the free An24 in the light of what we know:It is like the B1b, a stripped-out `poor` release, in this case incompetently packaged, incorrectly designed and using long-since past their use-by date panels, gauges, sounds and air files - from as far back as FS98, so you need to have FSUIPC installed to make them work (that's not mentioned anywhere in the documentation, by the way. Kinda strange for a standalone release?) And they expect us to pay them for a complete version? Whatever are they thinking? Reputations are earned, not sold. Steve Small, Rob Young, Bill Rambow and many other developers have earned the right to sell us their products. You can earn a reputation by producing something stunning, or you can earn the reputation by building up to something stunning. And in either case it doesn't matter whether you have to pay or not.But without `stun` you won't get the reputation, unless it's for strange practices not conducive to a long-term commercial future - like some we could mention.So, if this is representative of the best that the AN24 boys can come up with, how will they cope with the technical support needed when the full-blown version is launched? Do they even have a website? Or their own support forum? Not according to the readme's so far. Ominous.As a free download it's still poor, the only difference is that if it were freeware I wouldn't have the heart to complain, I'd just set to work making it better for my own needs. But when it's a foretaste of things to come, by their own admission only after money has changed hands, then I think we all have a right to express an opinion based upon what we have so far. ChasW

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Oh dear.So, ChasW, you don't like it then?Would anyone else like to comment?It is beginning to look like this isn't going to be as nice as the old FS2K AN-24RV was.Gavin

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Hi Gavin,It ok, but certainly not payware quality though.Dan.

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OK Gavin, let's stick to the specifics.The external model is good. But it doesn't have any 2d panel views (or a 3d VC panel), the flight model is way off in feel (if any 21-ton aircraft has that kind of pitch moment response to flap deployment it would be a miracle it ever got off the ground), the turn rate is on a par with a Blackbird at Mach 3 (which, if true, would render the aircraft incapable of a standard rate turn in any configuration, so that can't be right), the FS98 panel has a cartoon-like impression with no light or shading, no perspective impression, no throttle/pedestal window, there are no instructions as to how to start the aircaft, (the start panel is in Cyrillic), there are no startup sounds (the sound file apppears to be from FS2000 or before) and what sounds there are are ridiculously quiet in spot view. Also, despite opening doors (nice animation on the airstair) and windows there is no load utility as was included with the AN24RV, and no effects files at all - so no smoke on startup. From a technical standpoint there is no mention of FSUIPC being required to get some of these FS98 air file variables through to the gauges.Effectively, it's a new G-Max aircraft .mdl tacked on to a stripped-down version of the old RFG AN24-RV and not even the enhanced version with Matthias Lieberchts much better panel. If they released it without panel and sounds to reduce the d/l size it would be a nice looking aircraft for AI.Oh, and we've yet to see a download that isn't corrupted.I think that covers it. ChasW

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Hi Chas,Is this RFG AN24-RV avaliable anywhere?.Dan.

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ChasThanks for that. If the flt.cfg is that bad it'd be disappointing for me. Personally I'm not interested in the whole virtual cockpit thing, so that'd be a plus!I wonder if Marcel Felde's (was it Felde?) panel for the 2K AN-24RV would work? That was always one of my favourite free panels.I'd have to disagree with you regarding the start panel being written in Cyrillic. As an aircraft designed in the Ukraine and generally used in Russia, having everything written in Cyrillic adds to the attraction for me. I've learnt how to read this alphabet and know a little basic and technical Russian, so this isn't an issue. A 'How to start' guide would have been nice, I agree.A corrupt-file free download is, however, a major point for those of use with dial-up and wait modems.DanCan't remember where I got this AN-24RV from. Some Russian site. Don't worry, there's a English manual version!!!! If I were you, I'd try sticking 'AN-24RV for FS2000' into Google and take it from there. If this suceeds, I recommend Marcel Felde's freeware panel, available still in the AVSIM library. Although this AN-24 is showing it's age a bit now (it was one of the first big releases for 2K2) it still beats some of the freeware comming out now for 2K2, in my opinion. I've never got it to run in 2K2, though Mark Beaumaunt has, and spent a lot of time trying to help me out.Cheers lads!Gavin

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Well I personaly think Dmitri's AH-24B is great! But somethings you people don't understand with Russian/Ukrainian aircraft is how difficult it is to find information about them, little lone sound recordings or decent pictures. Security for aviation is quite different then say Europe and North America. I think Dmitri did an awesome job of this model. And Im sure the payware version will have a whole bunch more of goodies. :DBest Regards Derek Beal :-wavePROUD RUSSIAN/CANADIAN! :D

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