Wilco E-Jets released

[thepilot 584]

They're out now. I already heard that first bugs are being reported, so be careful... Regards,

[Guest UlfB]

Thanks for the heads up!Do you have a link to the support forum? I couldn't find any link the Wilco site. Had a look on the Feelthere forums but couldn't find a E-jet series forum.Where did you get the info about bugs being reported?Ulf B

[Guest mikealpha]

A user in a German forum has noticed some severe Autopilot/Autothrust regulation problems.Roughly translated : "AP doesn't hold altitude in turns. Does a steep turn with 45 deg bank everytime and looses altitude approx. 350 ft. This is not corrected by small pitch increase, but by full thrust, so the aircraft goes through the target altitude with abnormal pitch and overshoots it everytime by 1200 ft. Even worse, it keeps the full power while attempting to get back to the target altitude, now overshooting the speed up to overspeed. Bank limitation seems to dampen the effect, but this is not applicable for LOC intercept.So it is apparently even more noticeable when the AP works with 45 deg bank during LOC intercept, thus unable to stabilize GS".Mike

[TheFiddler 5]

> ... in a German forum ...Which one please?(I do believe you :), I'm just curious if there is more info there).Cheers,Martin

[Guest mikealpha]

it's here (scroll down a bit to message 67) :http://forum.flightxpress.net/index.php?pa...D=6436&pageNo=5

[Guest belga1]

Hi,Just a tough...In RL ... with a bank angle of 45

[Mike T 210]

No airliner does 45 degree turns except in an emergency and if a 45 degree turn is commanded, the autopilot shouldn't be engaged at all. A 45 degree turn requires significant backpressure on the yoke, NOT, small trim inputs, to compensate for the loss of vertical component of lift. To maintain a 45 degree bank and no loss of altitude will require more thrust AND backpressure on the yoke...it is actually a pretty aerobatic maneuver...try it in a Cessna 172 sometime, but you will never experience it in a commerical aircraft (hopefully).AND then the complaint is that the aircraft can't capture the localizer in a 45 degree bank??? Why not complain that the aircraft won't hold the glideslope while inverted at 500kts? :-lol

[mackintosh 0]

The way I read it is that it's the autopilot that commanded a 45 degree bank (i.e. completely unrealistic AP behaviour) while at level flight to make a turn and then did the same during approach when intercepting the localizer.This problem reminds me of the all too common issue I had with the Wilco Airbus that would command -6000fpm descent rates in managed descent and 45 degree bank commanded by their 737 autopilot (that got fixed many months after the initial release) literally throwing the plane out of the sky as a result.Either way, I decided to give this plane a try, so I'll see if I can reproduce those problems tonight.

[thepilot 584]

I wonder why so obvious problems like maintaining altitude are not fixed before a release. Seems like they didn't spend too much attention to their beta testers (if they had any...)

[Guest mikealpha]

Hi Mike,>> AND then the complaint is that the aircraft can't capture the localizer in a 45 degree bank??? Hmmm. I have read through the report again and found just this complaint :An Autopilot commanding 45 deg bank, with all the nasty follow-ups, if the Autopilot/Autothrust regulation tries to (over)compensate it.Mike

[mackintosh 0]

Sometimes those obvious problems are user hardware related. I remember the aforementioned 737 not being able to maintain level flight at 2x and 4x acceleration on my quite old and slow test rig (an ancient P4 3.06Ghz), while it performed flawlessly at these speed settings on my main machine (C2Q @ 3,6Ghz). Sometimes these things can't be caught in a limited beta-test, especially if they are hardware and not necessarily software related (I imagine most developers don't have a testing base the size of Microsoft or nvidia, and even then, look at their results *cough* drivers *cough* Vista *cough*).

[Guest UlfB]

That's why a premature release engaging the paying involuntary "beta testers" is so important ;-)I'm very greatful to those buying a version 1.0 aircraft and working with the developers to get the aircraft up to payware standard. I avoid buying version 1.0 aircraft, but with some exceptions depending on the reputation of the developer and if you are allowed a refund.Thanks for your information on the E-jets series.Ulf B

[mackintosh 0]

Well, here are my initial observations based on a very short flight (EPKK->EPWA) WITHOUT a thorough read through the manual, keep that in mind.The autopilot DOES command extreme bank angles. It does not anticipate that it will have to make a turn and thus instead of doing it gradually (see Level-D or PMDG), it makes sharp, extreme turns at the last minute and then tries to compensate for it. I have not however observed a significant deviation in the altitude at level flight though.The problem is much more profound during descent/approach phase, as the descent path becomes quite steep with an associated increase in airspeed, which can prove dangerous when capturing the localizer.I had a problem with the TOD calculation, but I'm blaming this on user error for now.I tried to do an autoland, the autopilot followed the localizer accurately and appeared to capture the glideslope, albeit it did not command the plane to descend (probably an error on my part, but I'm not quite sure about that). Upon disconnecting the AP, I tried to capture the glideslope again, doing so succesfully, however the plane descended so rapidly, that this attempt ended in a rather spectacular crash well short of the runway (again, I'm hedging all bets on my own user errors here though).So there you have it, my quick test flight. I'll give it a thorough trashing over the weekend, once I familiarise myself with all the procedures and then take another stab at an autoland.In terms of performance, I was pleasantly surprised, the frames were excellent throughout all phases of the flight. The gauges are crisp and well designed and the external model appears to be accurate. So that's it from me for now :)

[elgan 0]

I had serious problems with capturing the GS too. 2,500ft set on the PFD for the capture, all was well, until I met some crosswinds on approach to 27L at Heathrow.The plane passed 2,500ft still descending and the GS was captured, then realized that it had passed 2,500ft, so it compensated that with nose up, and extra thrust, then it passed 2,500ft on the climb, and kept climbing and accelerating!Had to disengage the AP, and try and fly in thick cloud, to capture the GS again. Once on it, it didn't stay there, the rate of decent was much higher than the 3 degrees, and without any intervention, it would have smashed into Myrtle Avenue!Also had a CTD on the 1st go, was to go with playing with the Electrics once the engines were online, and after shutting down the APU.Also for some reason, the HON1Y dep from EGCC, and BNN3A (now 4A) all had altitude constraints of 2,000ft. I'll try and load the latest AIRAC to see if that rectifies it.Other than that, she's a fine aircraft, loving some aspects of the E-Jet, such as the Vertical Profile, that's pretty cool, and also some aspects of the MFD. Model and sounds seem pretty accurate to me!As an avid EMB flyer, this, with some typical Wilco tweaking, will be a fine addition to the fleet, and I look forward to flying her time and time again.

[Guest B52Drivr]

<<>>Hi ya Mike, so.........will it? I take it you have this aircraft all ready.Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"