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cmpbellsjc

Question For Nickn Or Oc'ing Experts - Finishing An Oc

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Hi Nick. You had help me out in a few threads a while back regarding an OC that I was doing. I appreciate all the help. I have a stable 3.6 OC, but now I feel that the only thing holding be back from its true potential is the RAM settings. This is my first OC. I have been reading, researching, but when it comes to RAM setting concerning latency and speed, there are so many opinions. I read a post of your here: http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...223693603/15#15 , however I am not sure how I should apply this information to my system. Below is what I have;E8400 at 3.60 9 X 400Asus Maximus Formula2 GB Corasir TWIN2X2048-8500C5D 5-5-5-15 http://www.corsair.com/products/dominator/default.aspxEVGA 8800 GTS 512My mobo setting are below:Extreme Tweaker Ai Overclock Tuner : Manual CPU Ratio Control : 9 FSB Frequency : 400 FSB Strap to North Bridge : 400 PCI-E Frequency: 100 DRAM Frequency: DDR2- 1066 DRAM Command Rate : 2T DRAM Timing Control: Manual CAS# Latency : 5 RAS# to CAS# Delay : 5 RAS# Precharge : 5 RAS# ActivateTime : 15 RAS# to RAS# Delay : Auto Row Refresh Cycle Time : Auto Write Recovery Time : Auto Read to Precharge Time : Auto Read to Write Delay (S/D) : Auto Write to Read Delay (S) : Auto Write to Read Delay (D) : Auto Read to Read Delay (S) : Auto Read to Read Delay (D) : Auto Write to Write Delay (S) : Auto Write to Write Delay (D) : Auto DRAM Static Read Control: Auto Ai Clock Twister : Auto Transaction Booster : Auto CPU Voltage : 1.32 CPU PLL Voltage : AutoNorth Bridge Voltage : 1.49 DRAM Voltage : 2.1 FSB Termination Voltage : Auto South Bridge Voltage : Auto Loadline Calibration : Enabled CPU GTL Reference : Auto North Bridge GTL Reference : Auto DDR2 Channel A REF Voltage : Auto DDR2 Channel B REF Voltage : Auto DDR2 Controller REF Voltage : Auto SB 1.5V Voltage : Auto NB LED Selection : NB Volt SB LED Selection : SB Volt CPU LED Selection : CPU VOlt Voltiminder LED : Auto CPU Spread Spectrum : DisabledPCIE Spread Spectrum : DisabledMemset settings: th_65276_memset_settings1_122_707lo.JPGI have read so many posts about using the 333 and 400 strap, etc, but I would like to see what you would recommend with the equipment that I have. My in game FSX FPS are fine, but the RAM seems to be holding me back a little bit with texture loading. Some say the faster the better, while others say that tighter timings with less speed are the way to go. Assuming this were your system how would you proceed from here with the RAM. I would be happy to post any screen shots with CPU-Z settings or any other screens of that nature if you need more info.I understand that you are probably pretty busy with GEX Euro, but I would greatly appreciate any help you could offer. I am very eager to get this thing finished off, so that I can go back to enjoying FSX and quit fiddling with this OC.Thanks in advance,Sean

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Try manually setting your tRFC (Refresh Cycle Time) to 48 or higher. I run my 4GB G.Skill DDR2 kit @ 1GHz with 5/5/5/15 timings and tRFC @ 52, all else set to auto.

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Try manually setting your tRFC (Refresh Cycle Time) to 48 or higher. I run my 4GB G.Skill DDR2 kit @ 1GHz with 5/5/5/15 timings and tRFC @ 52, all else set to auto.
My mobo only gives settings for tRFC of 20, 25, 30, 35, or 42. Did you set yours in the bios screen or using memset?

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My mobo only gives settings for tRFC of 20, 25, 30, 35, or 42. Did you set yours in the bios screen or using memset?
I installed Memset and see that mine is already set at 52.

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I installed Memset and see that mine is already set at 52.
Good. Likely not your memory holding you back then. Edit: I misunderstood the problem. Texture loading in FSX is a function of the CPU, not one's RAM speed. You either need to adjust your texture settings downward, or get a quad-core processor. I suspect you'll want to try the former first ;)

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Hi Sean,I'm pretty sure Nick would recommend the 333 strap. Your texture loading issues could be related to your FS9.cfg and/or GPU settings too. Tighter timings won't necessarily help load times per se. They will result in sharper textures though.My settings look like this. My BIOS is set up like this:Extreme Tweaker Ai Overclock Tuner : Manual CPU Ratio Control : 8.5FSB Frequency : 450FSB Strap to North Bridge : 333 PCI-E Frequency: 100 DRAM Frequency: DDR2- 1081DRAM Command Rate : 2T DRAM Timing Control: Manual CAS# Latency : 5 RAS# to CAS# Delay : 5 RAS# Precharge : 3RAS# ActivateTime : 13 RAS# to RAS# Delay : 1 Row Refresh Cycle Time : Auto Write Recovery Time : 3Read to Precharge Time : 3 Read to Write Delay (S/D) : Auto Write to Read Delay (S) : Auto Write to Read Delay (D) : Auto Read to Read Delay (S) : Auto Read to Read Delay (D) : Auto Write to Write Delay (S) : Auto Write to Write Delay (D) : Auto DRAM Static Read Control: Enabled Ai Clock Twister : StrongTransaction Booster : Disabled Relax Level: 0 CPU Voltage : 1.40 CPU PLL Voltage : AutoNorth Bridge Voltage : 1.55 DRAM Voltage : 2.12 FSB Termination Voltage : Auto South Bridge Voltage : Auto Loadline Calibration : Enabled CPU GTL Reference : Auto North Bridge GTL Reference : Auto DDR2 Channel A REF Voltage : Auto DDR2 Channel B REF Voltage : Auto DDR2 Controller REF Voltage : Auto SB 1.5V Voltage : Auto NB LED Selection : NB Volt SB LED Selection : SB Volt CPU LED Selection : CPU VOlt Voltiminder LED : Auto CPU Spread Spectrum : DisabledPCIE Spread Spectrum : DisabledThis gets me to 3.825 GHz. These are the settings I've been using for the last couple of months now, 24/7. They've been rock solid for me. My temps are great too. Best Regards,Jeff

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Hey Jeff, good to hear from you. It's been a while since you helped me out, Oct I think. Yeah you were right, I am happy with the clock speed on the CPU, but now it seems like a get blurrier texture loading than I did before the OC. When I was running stock, I had pretty clear textures, but now not as much. I noticed that you had a 8.5 multiplyer x 450. One time I tried a 8 multiplier X 450 for 3.6 and the machine wouldn't boot :( , so I went back to the 9 X 400. If I go back to the 333 strap at 9 X 400 I only get 801, 961, and 1280 for the RAM speeds. I guess I could try your settings and see how they work, worst case it wont work and I could just start over. Those voltages for your CPU 1.40 and NB 1.55 seem so high that it kinda scares me, but I guess if temps are ok it's not a problem. What is the highest voltage that CPU can take? Thanks for the help, again. I will try your settings and see how it goes. Talk to you later,Sean

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Hey Jeff, good to hear from you. It's been a while since you helped me out, Oct I think. Yeah you were right, I am happy with the clock speed on the CPU, but now it seems like a get blurrier texture loading than I did before the OC. When I was running stock, I had pretty clear textures, but now not as much. I noticed that you had a 8.5 multiplyer x 450. One time I tried a 8 multiplier X 450 for 3.6 and the machine wouldn't boot :( , so I went back to the 9 X 400. If I go back to the 333 strap at 9 X 400 I only get 801, 961, and 1280 for the RAM speeds. I guess I could try your settings and see how they work, worst case it wont work and I could just start over. Those voltages for your CPU 1.40 and NB 1.55 seem so high that it kinda scares me, but I guess if temps are ok it's not a problem. What is the highest voltage that CPU can take? Thanks for the help, again. I will try your settings and see how it goes. Talk to you later,Sean
Remember that the 333 strap has a bigger impact the closer you are to a FSB of 450MHz. 333 is also where you will get to a 5:6 ratio, and where the 1081 DRAM Freq will be available to you.The max on the cpu is 1.45. When you set it in the BIOS you'll see that it shows up in green. At that setting, when you factor in the droop, you'll see 1.38v in everest or PcProbe. The Nb at 1.55 is just a tad higher than the "green range" in the BIOS. I would never get that above 1.7v. The highest I've operated at is 1.61v. This is what it looks like from Everest with my current configuration. You can see my temps are all just fine. I do have a number of fans running too so, that is part of the reason. The NB temp hits the low 60's on a warm day when using FS. I would make sure to keep that under 70c. Set the NB protection on the MB for 80c. IIRC, the thermal limit for the NB is 90c. If these numbers work out for you and you are still having texture issues, I could take a look at your FS9.cfg file to see if maybe something there is askew. Like I said earlier, it could also be the settings on your GPU. Refresh my memory as to the GPU you're using, I forgot.Let me know how it goes, ok.Jeff

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Well I tried your settings, all of them. Seems like a pretty good improvement in the texture loading. Temps also looked good. CPU never got above 47 degrees and NB at 54 degrees. I have 4 fans and the CPU cooler, plus its a little on the cool side here. Not as cool as where you are but cool none the less.I have about the same system as you. E8400, Asus Maximus Formula, same RAM, but I have am EVGA 8800 GTS 512. Also my case, sound card, and HD's are different. I am also just running FSX. After I got FSX I couldn't stand the look of FS9 anymore, even as good as it ran. For me the textures and overall look of FSX was enough to make me delete FS9. Since we have the same set up basically, if you ever decide to get FSX I think you will love it. The only thing I miss about FS9 was one plane, and a few sceneries that haven't been redone for FSX yet. I know I made my post sound like FSX was a terrible blurry mess. It wasn't, and it is running really well, but I knew that I could get a little more out of it by getting the RAM set up better. I will run some prime95 tests and stuff to make sure its stable, but so far it looks good. Thanks for the help. I will report back in a few days and let you know how its going. BTW, glad to see that the Broncos are winning their division, wish I could say the same about my Cowboys :( Talk to you later,Sean

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Well I tried your settings, all of them. Seems like a pretty good improvement in the texture loading. Temps also looked good. CPU never got above 47 degrees and NB at 54 degrees. I have 4 fans and the CPU cooler, plus its a little on the cool side here. Not as cool as where you are but cool none the less.I have about the same system as you. E8400, Asus Maximus Formula, same RAM, but I have am EVGA 8800 GTS 512. Also my case, sound card, and HD's are different. I am also just running FSX. After I got FSX I couldn't stand the look of FS9 anymore, even as good as it ran. For me the textures and overall look of FSX was enough to make me delete FS9. Since we have the same set up basically, if you ever decide to get FSX I think you will love it. The only thing I miss about FS9 was one plane, and a few sceneries that haven't been redone for FSX yet. I know I made my post sound like FSX was a terrible blurry mess. It wasn't, and it is running really well, but I knew that I could get a little more out of it by getting the RAM set up better. I will run some prime95 tests and stuff to make sure its stable, but so far it looks good. Thanks for the help. I will report back in a few days and let you know how its going. BTW, glad to see that the Broncos are winning their division, wish I could say the same about my Cowboys :( Talk to you later,Sean
Great!! Glad to hear it worked out. So, we have the same graphics card too. All those 8 series cards were made in the same factory, re-seller notwithstanding. If you're not using it, you should take a look at nHancer for getting the most out of it. RIva Tuner too, for controlling the GPU fan and oc'ing the card.I'll check back to see how you're getting along. Too bad about dem Cowboys! :( Talk to ya later,Jeff

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Hi Nick. You had help me out in a few threads a while back regarding an OC that I was doing. I appreciate all the help. I have a stable 3.6 OC, but now I feel that the only thing holding be back from its true potential is the RAM settings. This is my first OC. I have been reading, researching, but when it comes to RAM setting concerning latency and speed, there are so many opinions. I read a post of your here: http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...223693603/15#15 , however I am not sure how I should apply this information to my system. Below is what I have;E8400 at 3.60 9 X 400Asus Maximus Formula2 GB Corasir TWIN2X2048-8500C5D 5-5-5-15 http://www.corsair.com/products/dominator/default.aspxEVGA 8800 GTS 512My mobo setting are below:Extreme Tweaker Ai Overclock Tuner : Manual CPU Ratio Control : 9 FSB Frequency : 400 FSB Strap to North Bridge : 400 PCI-E Frequency: 100 DRAM Frequency: DDR2- 1066 DRAM Command Rate : 2T DRAM Timing Control: Manual CAS# Latency : 5 RAS# to CAS# Delay : 5 RAS# Precharge : 5 RAS# ActivateTime : 15 RAS# to RAS# Delay : Auto Row Refresh Cycle Time : Auto Write Recovery Time : Auto Read to Precharge Time : Auto Read to Write Delay (S/D) : Auto Write to Read Delay (S) : Auto Write to Read Delay (D) : Auto Read to Read Delay (S) : Auto Read to Read Delay (D) : Auto Write to Write Delay (S) : Auto Write to Write Delay (D) : Auto DRAM Static Read Control: Auto Ai Clock Twister : Auto Transaction Booster : Auto CPU Voltage : 1.32 CPU PLL Voltage : AutoNorth Bridge Voltage : 1.49 DRAM Voltage : 2.1 FSB Termination Voltage : Auto South Bridge Voltage : Auto Loadline Calibration : Enabled CPU GTL Reference : Auto North Bridge GTL Reference : Auto DDR2 Channel A REF Voltage : Auto DDR2 Channel B REF Voltage : Auto DDR2 Controller REF Voltage : Auto SB 1.5V Voltage : Auto NB LED Selection : NB Volt SB LED Selection : SB Volt CPU LED Selection : CPU VOlt Voltiminder LED : Auto CPU Spread Spectrum : DisabledPCIE Spread Spectrum : DisabledMemset settings: th_65276_memset_settings1_122_707lo.JPGI have read so many posts about using the 333 and 400 strap, etc, but I would like to see what you would recommend with the equipment that I have. My in game FSX FPS are fine, but the RAM seems to be holding me back a little bit with texture loading. Some say the faster the better, while others say that tighter timings with less speed are the way to go. Assuming this were your system how would you proceed from here with the RAM. I would be happy to post any screen shots with CPU-Z settings or any other screens of that nature if you need more info.I understand that you are probably pretty busy with GEX Euro, but I would greatly appreciate any help you could offer. I am very eager to get this thing finished off, so that I can go back to enjoying FSX and quit fiddling with this OC.Thanks in advance,Sean
SeanThe Corsiar DDR2 memory and maintaining the max 2.1v is going to be limited to about 1095 5-5-5 no matter what you do and it will not run 1T or lower tRD than 7The only option you have is to increase CPU speed and step up to 450MHzSTRAP is based on the CPU in use and the available memory speeds.. it will either be 333 or 400 one of the two and in your case probably 333If the CPU will not run its locked multipler by 450 then you are stuckThis is the limit of DDR2 and why I tell people once you get to a certain point, thats all you are gettingIf your proc will run 450 then that is what you should strive for. But you are not going to get 1T or PL6You may need to trim vcore and a few other things that will be as far as you can go thoughEDIT: I see you made it... nice jobIt does make a difference, doesnt it?DDR3 on a quad improves what you see by a very decent margin and i7 properly clocked on tri-channel 1600 low latency improves it much further.Try increasing your texture_Bandwidth_Multipier in the FSX.cfg file to 70 or 80 (80 max which is what I use but I also have more VC memory and faster memory buss speed cards)

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Well guys. Good news and bad news.1st the good news is that even with my better performance I am now getting it wasn't until tonight that I figured out what my problem was with the textures loading. Apparently it had to do with the performance hit I was experiencing after updating UTX from 1.2 to 1.3. In version 1.3 the road traffic does something different than it does in 1.2 and thus was causing my performance hit. I disabled traffic in the UTX setup tool and now I am getting 25-45 FPS and perfectly clear textures flying into KMIA with 80% AI in my LDS767 VC. Prior to turing off traffic in the UTX setup tool I was getting only 15-20 FPS with a little blurriness. I posted over at their forum to see how I can get my v1.2 road traffic back.Now for the bad news. Even though FSX is running great I ran a prime95 blend test to get a little of everything, but the test failed after only 2 minutes. It said: FATAL ERROR: rounding was .05, expected less than 0.4. Do you guys have any idea what this means and how I should proceed? I wonder if this has anything to do with the funny sound popping and crackling that I sometimes get from the default Asus sound card?Jeff I set everything exactly like you did, except for the AI clock twister. Mine is still set to Auto per what Nick said in that other post a while back. I even set my memset settings to the same thing you had. I will wait and see what you guys say before I proceed.Thanks guys,Sean

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Well guys. Good news and bad news.1st the good news is that even with my better performance I am now getting it wasn't until tonight that I figured out what my problem was with the textures loading. Apparently it had to do with the performance hit I was experiencing after updating UTX from 1.2 to 1.3. In version 1.3 the road traffic does something different than it does in 1.2 and thus was causing my performance hit. I disabled traffic in the UTX setup tool and now I am getting 25-45 FPS and perfectly clear textures flying into KMIA with 80% AI in my LDS767 VC. Prior to turing off traffic in the UTX setup tool I was getting only 15-20 FPS with a little blurriness. I posted over at their forum to see how I can get my v1.2 road traffic back.Now for the bad news. Even though FSX is running great I ran a prime95 blend test to get a little of everything, but the test failed after only 2 minutes. It said: FATAL ERROR: rounding was .05, expected less than 0.4. Do you guys have any idea what this means and how I should proceed? I wonder if this has anything to do with the funny sound popping and crackling that I sometimes get from the default Asus sound card?Jeff I set everything exactly like you did, except for the AI clock twister. Mine is still set to Auto per what Nick said in that other post a while back. I even set my memset settings to the same thing you had. I will wait and see what you guys say before I proceed.Thanks guys,Sean
Yes sir.. the UTX issue with their 1.3 patch is a bugger. I do not run any higher than 8% car traffic even on my systems after that patch. My systems can run the traffic that low but many will find they must disable the UTX Moving Traffic option in the UTX tool in order to gain back that CPU and memory resource especially flying heavy metal in larger hubsThey added traffic to side streets with that patchAs for your instability, as mentioned you will most likely need to trim some settings. AI Clock twister.. set it to LIGHTEST and see if that makes a difference first. Also, if the BIOS has the setting DRAM STATIC READ CONTROL set it to DISABLEDSee if those do not trim in stabilityNB @ 1.55 is probably good however there are some that may need to increase that to 1.6.. I would however be careful above 1.55 and check NB temp. If it remains below 60c under a full load its OK. CPU PLL and FSB Termination are usually ok on AUTO with dual core procs... same with GTL voltage trim.... typcially only quads need trim on those settings and I would leave them on Auto. Sometimes a touch of Vcore helps and when clocking Load Line Calibration in the BIOS should be ENABLED which dampens the effect Vdroop has and allows what is set in the BIOS for Vcore to remain a constant. That means you do NOT overshoot Vcore in the BIOS to obtain a lower value in Windows... ENABLE LLC will help stabilize a clock but you must also make sure your Vcore setting is not going to exceed the proc max. I would need to look up the values for the proc as I do not have any clocking notes on it here.

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Your CPU voltage is almost certainly too low if set to 1.32V, especially once you take vdroop and normal board variations into account. Not many Wolfdale chips will hit such high clocks on such low volts, despite what some extreme overclockers may report on some forums (not speaking about this one). I run between 1.44-1.46V on my E8400 to achieve 4GHz. I do not recommend you run this voltage, as it will definitely shorten the lifespan of your CPU. Bump your voltage up a notch and test again. 1.35V is the highest you should go to stay within Intel recommendations, 1.45V is the maximum the manufacturing process used to produce your processor is designed to handle. Also, switch to OCCT for stress-testing. It will find errors much quicker than Prime95 (unless your o/c is horribly unstable, which it does not appear to be). As an added bonus, OCCT displays the CPU voltage in real-time so you can see what the voltage is actually reading, not just what it's set to in the BIOS. On my board I have vdroop of .2-.4V which is pretty bad, but pretty normal for P35 chipset boards I've seen without any LLC feature.

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Stick with Nicks advice Sean. You're in the home stretch now. This is where the "no two systems are the same" comes into play. You're down to the little tweaks now. I'm looking forward to seeing where you end up with your oc. I'm going to follow along and maybe tweak a little more myself.All the best,Jeff

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