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Guest rider007

Rotation-sync For Multiple Virtual Cockpit Windows

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Hello guys!Several days I explored exhaustedly different forums but my following problem could not be solved:The fundamental idea behind is to use an optimal multi-monitor setup over three different monitors on one computer capable for TrackIR head-tracking.My system configuration: 1 center monitor (30" with 2560 x 1600 resolution), 2 side monitors left/right (20" with 1600 x 1200 resolution), 1 computer running Vista with 2 graphic cards (8800GTS and 8800GTX).What I

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Additional Question:What I don't understand, why WideView only works with view sync for one virtual cockpit view for each pc? Why is it impossible to sync multiple virtual cockpit views on one single pc with WideView?There must be someone on this planet who has also three (or) monitors and is able to use them on one single pc for head-tracking without the Matrox TH2Go.Greets from rider007!

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Hey Rider007,There is an event in the sim that will do what you want. You need to go through the Options | Settings | Controls menu items to bring up the Settings - Controls dialog. On the Buttons / Keys tab, set the Event Category filter combo box to Views, scroll the listbox all the way to the bottom, then scroll back one page, and on that page should be an event named "View - link all (toggle)", assign a keypress or joystick button press to that event, then setup your 3 VC windows adjusting the view offsets, etc;, then press the key / joystick button, and all the 3D view windows will now move together (works with stuff like the hat switch panning, haven't tried it with a TrackIR).Tim

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Rider007, Thanks for setting up the question of the various solutions for high resolution, "wide horizons", multimonitors. I have been experimenting at work with similar equipment. I have seen the same problems as you for the following configurations - note that I have a pretty great PC to try this with - a q9770 with three GTX280s and three 24" monitors (they prefer 1920x1200) and three 52" Sony Bravia HDTVs (prefer 1920x1080) and a Digital Edition Triple Head2GO! I personally am interested in performance similar to Full Fidelity Sim Cockpit visuals (60 fps widescreen - maybe 120deg by 40deg ). I also am interested in the 3D virtual cockpit experience accepting somewhat less performance. I am testing FSX SP2 and ESP 1.0. Also, I use the Megascenery for Southern California, the new OZ Grand Canyon, ORBX Tasmania, and other photoreal scenery with minimal Autogen to achieve the high frame rates. I may want to try TrackIR as well. 1. Matrox Triple Head to Go with the new firmware at 3 x 1680x1050. Pretty good experience with this configuration in that the frames per second (good visual smoothness) drop for driving 5040 x 1050 pixels was minimal - maybe 3->5 fps at most - the GTX 280 doesn't breathe very hard on this - even at the locked 60fps setting (unless you get near to a low frame rate airport). This image looks pretty nice even though the monitors are running at less than their native res - would probably look sharper with three smaller 22" monitors at their native 1680x1050. Of course this won't work for you with the different monitors and the resolution of 1680x1050 on your 30" monitor would be poor anyway. The geometric distortion of the side windows is moderate (buildings/towers that lean and general "smearing") and depends on pitch angle. I personally like the image with a ZOOM of maybe 0.60 - I tried the 737-800 cockpit and I want to be able to read the PFD (airspeed/altitude) clearly and get at the Autopilot MCP without slewing the viewpoint. I also want a reasonable amount of side viewing for turning from base to final. The one problem with this layout is the lack of vertical vision in turns - everything is fine when straight and level but with a 30 deg bank, I can't see much in the side windows that is useful - that is the nature of the beast though - maybe TrackIR would help here. The image in the side windows with TH2Go is certainly not what you would get with a three channel visual system where the side views would be separately generated. Another problem I had was that for some reason (I tried to work it with Matrox), I couldn't get the TH2Go to drive the three HDTVs at 1680x1050 (worked fine when driving directly with a GTX280) - I had to reduce to 1360x720 or something like that. That lower res just didn't look that great on such a large monitor. 2. Separate Monitors(either the 24" or the 52" HDTVs) - each on its own GTX280. This has the potential of being a great solution as far as each monitor having high resolution but the immediately noticeable problem is the very significant drop in frame rate - in my case, from 60 fps to 30 fps with both side views up. This situation is obviously requiring FSX/ESP to draw multiple views but with the current design can't use the multiple CPUs and multiple GPUs (remember that I have three GTX280s on an nforce 790i mobo). We have our own internally written out-the-window scene system that uses this configuration very nicely (locked at 60 fps) - each channel has its own CPU and GPU with a fourth CPU to talk to the flight sim as well as load up new scenery. I am hoping that ESP2.0 (FSX11???) will have such a design. While a PC per channel (the Wideview solution as well as most Full Fidelity sim cockpits) works well, it is just too much complexity for a home system for most of us - and expensive if you want 60fps. I still am hoping that we can eventually get a three channel system from a single PC with two video cards even though the side channels would have to use the same GPU. I would also like the user to be able to set a desired frame rate and have an effective framerate overload management system that would remove Autogen buildings and trees, AI traffic, etc in the distance so as to maintain the rate especially on final approach. I saw the recommendation by "beatle" (Tim Gregson - a highly competent pioneer in the MSFS world!!) to set up the view lock and I will try that. The other downside of the three channel setup so far is that the horizon will seemingly "misbehave" in that with pitch angle, the side channels will tilt while the center channel will pan up or down. In a Full Fidelity sim cockpit, the projection system and lens that collimate the view at infinity corrects for all that so it looks great to the pilot while with three monitors in front of you, it looks strange (this doesn't happen with Th2Go). 3. A single large (at least 52") HDTV. Surprisingly, by sitting close (3 feet way) to a large screen HDTV running at 1920x1080, with the picture settings at a modified "cinema" - brighter, softened clarity, low saturation - the image generated by FSX at 60fps with photoreal scenery and ZOOM set to .5 or .6 is very compelling! The view is about 80 deg by 45 deg. I was surprised how comfortable it seems and how immersive it appears - at least to me. With the Megascenery SoCal, I feel like it is my personal IMAX. Aerobatics feels nice - I have good side and vertical vision (probably would be enhanced with TrackIR). Maybe if I could do the cockpit with a couple of separate monitors (2D), the illusion would be nice. Anyway, I just wanted to encourage FSX folks to try an HDTV at 1920x1080 (use an HDMI input) but be sure to set the picture settings away from "normal".Rider007, I wish I could encourage you WRT multiple monitors and maybe Option 2 above will work for you even though the frame rates are significantly lower. I do know that Microsoft is showing a VERY prebeta ESP 2.0 at the I/ITSEC conference in Orlando this week. Maybe the multiple monitors issue is being addressed - don't know. As everyone agrees, we are on the verge both in hardware and software to having a relatively inexpensive (and simple I hope) immersive flight simulator experience maybe even better than what has been a standard in the Full Fidelity sim cockpit world.whitav8

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Hi beatle!Thank you for your reply - it did work! I have tried it and all 3 virtual cockpit views are indeed in sync.Ok, the different views could be better aligned, for this WideView will surely help as it allows very precisely angle and zoom adjustment for the different views. But I would never come to that solution by myself, so thank you again, you really know well about the options menu of FSX :( Hi whitav8!Thank you too for your reply! Well, you`re right, the frame rate is not excellent with three different cockpit views generated from a solely pc. But for me it is ok. To be true, I will use this configuration for IFR training as real as it gets - at night for instance the framerate is much better, for sure as there must be less objects generated from the GPU. But it wouldn't be worth for me to add some networked pcs, although the framerate would be surely better. The idea with a single big HDTV screen is also good particularly when you couple it with TrackIR, because head movement will be more natural due to the big screen. But it is also an excellent natural feeling when you use the three big monitors from my configuration - and with TrackIR you have the vertical movement (and all other movements possible) of view which you miss. So I would recommend you to try TrackIR, I think you will like it!The week before I thought about trying the VuzixVR920 HMD-glasses - but the resolution is so bad, that I would for sure throw it in the waste basket after 2 minutes. It is really sadly that the manufacturers are not intelligent enough to develop HMD-devices with a reasonable resolution lets say at least 2560X1600 per eye for a price up to 1000 $. No one can tell me that hardware is not existant, see the Sensics piSight or xSight glasses - good things, but unfortunately not available at Ebay for max. 1000$, the original price of 35000$ is a little bit unrealistic as no consumer will spend that amount. But we see the way for HMD devices is going on - and this will solve all our framerate and view problems as we would only need one monitor=one HMD glasses and would have a real virtual cockpit view. I hope we must not wait too long for this nice Christmas presents :( Although the idea of Vuzix iWear glasses is good: one effective monitor with headtracking view rotation, and the user has contact to the outer world as the glasses are not completely eye-covering, so you can see a little bit downwards, e.g. for key-inputs, charts etc. But as I have said, the laughable resolution disqualifies the device. I really wonder if this development was really worthwile for the manufacturer, who will by this device with a resolution from the 1980s?Well dear friends,thank you again for your tips. Till now, we must live with the possibilities and restrictions of FSX - but I hope a new version will come out in the near future, where programming will be more framerate-friendly, where multi-monitor-setups are better integrated - and where true realistic complete ATC with voice recognition is implemented;-).Best regards,rider007!

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... should be an event named "View - link all (toggle)", assign a keypress or joystick button press to that event, then setup your 3 VC windows...
I just tried this, and I really like it.I've got an 8800 GTX with two video ports so I can only set up two monitors, but the extra wide view is really impressive. You've got to do it in windowed mode, of course, and setting up a new VC view which has to be undocked, resized and moved to your other monitor is a bit of a hassel, but I could really get used to it.I can't seem to get the TrackIR gear to pan the other screen though. But with the mouse look and the joystick hat switch I think I could actually go without the TrackIR gear altogether. With two screens you can just about look behind you without losing sight of the airspeed and attitude indicators which is actually more useful than what you can do with the TrackIR gear on a single monitor.If you happen to have two video ports on your card and a spare monitor then give it a try. You'll find it's probably going to be cheaper than buying the head tracking gear for a single monitor, and I reckon the result is more impressive anyway.Mike.

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