whitav8

@Tony, Just a quick point for the future. Driving THREE 4K displays at 4K (not 2K) with a single Nviidia 1080 will not work very well performance wise - maybe at 30Hz - but still that will drag down the GPU - that is a LOT of pixels. Just stick with three HD (1080 monitors/HDTVs) for now. You need to build and test and iterate. Get your new PC - whatever you can afford - order it from some company who will deliver it already overclocked at 4.4Ghz then install Win10 and Prepar3D. with a SINGLE 1920x1080 monitor, load up an airport scene and an aircraft that will be your first test (start with default scenery and default aircraft at the start of a runway) and adjust (usually reduce) Prepar3D graphic settings until you get about 100 FPS. That will be the best you can hope to achieve. Now add in the other two monitors for the side views and add the new views - at that point you should see an average frame rate (FPS) of 30 to 40. Now you can try your first particular addon scenery and aircraft to make sure you don't lose very much performance and make sure that it seems smooth - minimal stutter. Now you can add the other monitors and bring up the 2D panels. Instead of actual flying, I use the slew keys and set up a forward speed of maybe 100 knots, a little bit of bank, and then some yaw at about 200 feet so I can watch the frame rate and smoothness without needing to concentrate on flying.

I agree with the above response from Oliver - networking two Prepar3D computers calls for some tricky setups and the cost of two Prepar3D licenses - though it can be done. Most folks use either Wideview (http://www.wideview.it/wideview.htm) or OpusFSI (http://www.opussoftware.co.uk/opusfsi/downloads.htm) - but I would study their forums looking for recent entries to see if they are able to keep up with all the Prepar3D updates and will they provide all the features that you want (traffic/weather,etc). A single highend PC (get a 6 core if you can afford it as long as you find forums that say it can easily be overclocked to at least 4.4Ghz) as you have listed - with two Nvidia 1080s (not SLI'd - the second card could just be a 1070) should be able to drive all the monitors using four ports (along with Display Port to DVI (or whatever) adapters plus the HDMI) per video card for a total of eight. With reductions of settings (reduced shadows, reduced traffic, and medium water and such), and the CPUs at 4.4Ghz or so, you should be able to get about 30 to 40 fps even with all the 2D displays and 3 separate scenery views. As mentioned by Oliver, only some of the aircraft that you may be interested in will provide the 2D display windows you want, but for aircraft like 737/777 you could use SimAvionics (http://www.sim-avionics.com/) or equivalent. Be very careful as to the choice of terrain scenery addons looking for high performance products - always study the forums looking for multimonitor user complaints first. Some eye candy will just slow you down. Make sure you search the various forums (this one especially) for multimonitor setups - there is always the issue of getting the horizon and zoom alignments correct on multiple view out-the-window setups. There are several companies that provide part task trainers that use setups like you are trying to build - and most of them use a single PC - example (http://www.platinumsimulators.com/) Best of luck

@bobaz, Perhaps one point of confusion for you is that Lockheed-Martin has advertised support for Oculus but the one problem is that they are not yet building to Oculus Runtimes 1.3 or higher (now at 1.5 which is required for CV1). Anyway, L-M does not address the many issues that FlyInside handles already as far as supporting multiple windows (non P3D even) being imported into the cockpit and providing for Asynchronous Time Warp support as well as DSR (higher resolution images then downsampled).

Another approach in order to try before you buy (into Win10 issues), is to simply set up a dual boot. You just need maybe 100gb somewhere on your Win 7 system - hopefully SSD space, make a fresh install of Win10 (install P3D on it - L-M is OK with that - i.e. you now have two different installs of P3D - allows you to try v3.2 and then 3.3 for example). I like the flexibility and the cleanliness of fresh installs under WIn10. I will admit that I still end up on Win7 more often just because I have a lot of apps there. I feel the Win10 and P3D is smoother - fewer stutters - especially for Oculus Rift flying.

Make sure you use the Oculus Debug Tool capability for setting the value, Pixel Per Display Pixel Override to 1.500 or so for improved clarity with either DCS World or War Thunder. Both of these freeware apps run a bit more smoothly than P3D for me and give you a chance to try something else than FSX/P3D to compare the flying experience. I really enjoy flying old pre WWII aircraft in War Thunder - just try a Test Flight so you can fly and see the 3D virtual cockpits (not every aircraft has one though).

@denali, I'm not really sure at all, but I think Nikola is talking about using multiple separate views (which definitely slows down the FPS performance) - each of which is maybe 60- 70 degrees horizontal field of view. Even with that approach there is need for bezel alignment and some distortion correction so that the horizon behaves well for a certain eyepoint. Their realtime distortion correction was originally designed for multiple projectors that need distortion correction and edge blending. They are now taking their knowledge into the use of large HDTVs and LCDs. I know you were working on the use of just one very wide view. Dave

@GSalden, Thanks for your ideas on the proper approach. Unfortunately, currently we are using a Matrox TripleHead2Go to drive the three monitors so the center unit is part of a superwide single screen. Perhaps we could try separating them into the two side windows and the center being a single NV controllable monitor. We may really need the Immersive warped approach to get as good a proper horizon as possible with as little side windows stretching distortion as possible. Is that issue very important to you? Thanks for your time and thinking on this issue!! Dave

@FlightSimDimm, How can you control the overall horizontal field of view? I seem to get a reasonable result for a low zoom (maybe +-50 degree) fov on three screens but I would like to set it so I almost see +-85 degrees. Do I just move the eyepoint or what? Also, I still notice objects (like other aircraft or the control tower) on the ground that as I yaw around in SLEW mode are still quite a bit larger near the left and right edges - is that your experience?

@FlightSimDimm, OK. I downloaded that tool and found that I need Immersive Display Pro with is about $200 or so to actually get the warping. I emailed the dev and he says they don't yet support the rotated display - but are looking at it. Great support from them - very responsive.

@FlightSimDimm That looks like the proper tool for sure - but I couldn't see how to purchase it on their website - any ideas? Also, the one issue as I mentioned is that even though the three monitors (large 60 inch HDTVs) are on one Matrix splitter, the center one is rotated 90 for better vertical FOV. I will try to communicate with the Immersive folks. Thanks again Dave

@flyingsub1959 Thanks for the suggestion but it appears that they assume a fixed zoom=0.7 which wouldn't work for this application. I need to probably adjust the zoom. Dave

I need some camera.cfg (or whichever file) window calculations help for a friend with three HDTV (1920x1080)monitors - separate non-virtual cockpit views(not Surround), on three monitors - but with the center one rotated 90 degrees. It will be used with mostly helicopter simulations so he wants more vertical FOV for the center view. We aren't sure whether to rotate the center view using the Nvidia control panel or just have a 90 degree rotation in the cameras.cfg file. I expect he wants about +-22.5 (45 total) horizontal degrees for the center view horizontal and maybe +-30 (60 total) horizontal degrees for each side view with a few degrees for the bezels. At one time, there was a spreadsheet that a user had provided for these calculations - is there anything like that these days for P3D?

The one issue that I and others have noted with 3.2 is when mountain flying down low, the sides of the mountains are not updated to the most detailed texture until just a couple miles ahead of you which results in very noticeable popping - it didn't do that in 3.0 Dave

@MistyBlue - thanks again for your info and details. Please let us all know about the new HDMI 2.0 cables which should give you the improved color resolution. @Mike, Do you run HDMI 2.0 cables to your 4Ks and which UHDTVs are they - any special TV settings (PC Mode, etc..) What P3D graphic settings (Vsync, Triple Buffer, Frame limiting, etc) do you use and what FPS do you get? Do you run Surround?

@MistyBlue, I am planning on using a curved screen Samsung as well and I have a couple questions. Do you have a Samsung7500 model? Did you get 4:4:4 at 60 hz to work so you can use it for smaller text? What HDMI cables do you use and what setup options at the Samsung did you use? Thanks much Dave

Just make sure you have a video card (Nvidia 970 or better) and CABLE (Display Port 1.2 or HDMI 2.0) that supports 4K UHD. You should be able to get within 3 feet of the HDTV and not see too much pixelation. Read up (Google it and look at some forums) on what the 7500 menus require to get it to use the HDMI port from a UHD video card. You should really enjoy the size and using Zoom, set for maybe 90 degrees Field of View. That particular Samsung has 3D capability but I haven't found any hint that that particular 3D format is supported by the video driver - I would like to buy that same screen. I am running an Oculus with my system right now but would really like to see how a large screen with 3D feels.

make sure you consider siliconlottery.com where they will provide a CPU that has been selected and tested for high Ghz and also will delid it.

For those of you with a DK2 and want to see a comparison between P3Dv3 + FlyInside image quality and something else that supports VR directly, try out the free (direct or through Steam) DCS World openbeta 1.5 (Russia database) or openalpha 2.0 (Las Vegas + Nellis+Groom Lake) since it doesn't require FlyInside. This simply gives you a visual image comparison with better antialiasing (at present) with the free SU-25T and P-51 aircraft. I can generally read the gauges well and the update rate is pretty smooth. Shooting rockets off is fun as well. Evening/Dawn shadows are nice and don't have to be turned off for reasonable performance. Asynchronous Time Warp isn't released yet though.

@J Van E -- It is "only" 100 degrees (done with a Zoom factor of about 0.3) - or so Field Of View that the pixels are spread over - not 360. Most of us with FlyInside at max res are not having problems reading the gauges - especially older "steam" gauges - except those with small fonts or hard to reach (like FMS CDUs) screens. Also, some of the Virtual Cockpits use textures for some indicators and others use vector drawn instruments - and the black on white has aliasing issues. FlyInside can only use SMAA antialiasing for now since it is a post process shader concept. For example, to read all of the popup F1GTN750 screen, I place it near me - maybe a few feet away in the virtual cockpit off to my direct right and then toggle it on and off when I don't need it. Sure, more resolution would really help, but flying the F22 inside the Grand Canyon looks really good. As far as head tracking, it is very 1 to 1 - you look with your head up/down/left/right over your shoulder, lean in/out, etc., and the view is correct - no scaling. The only issue is whether the imagery can keep up with the desired 75 updates/sec for the Oculus display - which, since it is stereo, would require a 150FPS sim update rate - nearly impossible. This is why the DEV of FlyInside has mastered the use of Asynchronous Time Warp (ATW) - code in the Oculus SDK - that makes intervening (between FSX/P3D frames) scenes via pixel shifting of the last complete frame by FSX/P3D in the direction of the head movement using velocity extrapolation. This results in minimal stutter as you move your head around - it is so great to look nearly behind you and check the view backwards or check where the runway is when it is to your rear quarter - naturally, with a full turn of the head - not a twitch of the nose. Even when the FSX/P3D sim can produce only 60 fps (30 stereo), ATW works quite well. You will need 4.2 Ghz CPU cores and an NV970 or equivalent. The other flight sim that has Oculus support - Eagle Dynamics DCS World - doesn't yet have ATW so there is some judder(stutter) if you turn your head quickly - unless you are away from all cities and are actually getting the 150 fps (before stereo) framerate. Their virtual cockpits are extremely good - A10, F15, Huey, and many more. Yes, we don't want to overhype the VR world - but many of us are really enjoying it. See if you can find someone's system to try - give it a few minutes. Dave

I am using DK2 at full resolution with a 6 core 4.2 Ghz CPU and an Nv970. With Flyinside, I run very smooth (nearly judder free) with medium settings. I move the pilot eyepoint to be quite close to the glareshield but still so I can see all instruments reasonably clearly. Seeing the center console on CS777 is difficult (I can't lean down enough) and the FMS CDU is difficult to read but most other instruments are pretty clear. The DEV of Flyinside (Dan Church) has added features so you can have other sim support (popup GTN750, Moving Maps, etc.) windows inside the cockpit (toggle button on/off) and there is a local zoom feature. I changed from a standard Logitech Extreme 3D pro joystick to a $30 Thrustmaster HOTAS so I have separate throttle with a lot of buttons but I found that Voice Activation is really the best way to control things - for me, many buttons requires a lot of remembering for the mapping. Apps like VAC and Multi Crew Experience let you feel some company in the VR cockpit - a first officer - you just map your voice commands to the keyboard. I really enjoy this compared to my previous three monitor configuration. When you fly your F22 (or H-60 Heli without doors) down just above the the surface of the Colorado River inside the Grand Canyon, and look way up to the rim, you are doing something you will never do otherwise in real life. I also fly DCS World Version 2 with the A-10C in the new Las Vegas scenery with Nellis and Groom Lake. Looking out to your right wing as you fire some rockets or watch the other aircraft in the scene as you look even further back over your head as you execute a chandelle to keep your eyes on the target, an amazing feeling. DCS World has most of the buildings and trees with shadows (run at late afternoon with some clouds) of Downtown Vegas along with many static airliners at McCarran - (the Russkis are coming - make your own mission). When Asynchronous Time Warp is added in DCS World (it's already in Flyinside for FSX/P3D), there will be less judder - or get a 980ti. Yes, I would like a clearer image so I could see the bad guys at longer range. I would like a little more Antialiasing with FSX/P3D - seems just fine in DCS World. You should be able to buy a DK2 cheaper from eBay or whatever when the CV1 ($600 is too much for me) starts to ship in April/May. Now I don't have to build a cockpit to get the feeling and all the virtual cockpit developers are making it SO real.

@Mike, Which UHD HDTVs do you use (many UHD models cannot be driven at 4:4:4 color which is required for good small text use) and can one Nv980 drive them or does it take more? What kind of FPS do you get - I was running three 22" monitors and getting 40 fps or so with medium settings - do you use NvSurround or three separate views (which I do)? I was going to try out a single Samsung curved 65" 4K tv close up but came across Dan Church's FlyInside software and the Oculus Rift with amazing 360 degree and "lean-in" head tracking with stereo virtual cockpits that feel full size. I am also using Multi Crew Experience speech recognition to set a lot of the PMDG 777 knobs and switches with a virtual copilot that talks back. The resolution isn't quite as high as I would like but the feeling of being surrounded by the cockpit and the real sense of flying in hilly 3D terrain - especially the Grand Canyon in an F-22 or the new H60 helicopter is very nice. Dave

@Denali, I was just going to ask the same question. Could you share with us how you set up stereo streaming (which Nvidia driver set?) from FSX/P3D. Are you using PPrep3D (that you developed) for increasing the FOV with reduced distortion? What are you doing for head tracking - is it 1:1 (one degree of yaw,pitch, roll and fore/aft/right/left for the equivalent in the scene orientation)? Are you using regular antialiasing (set by FSX/P3D in-game or NVInspector) or more like Sweetfx at postprocess shader time? What about the "time warp" (extra frame generation) that Dan Church is providing to smooth the frame rate for DK2? How much material did you have to take out of the Homido to get the wider FOV? This all sounds terrific! Could any other cellphones be used? Would there ever be any way to use the cellphone orientation sensors to feed back head position to the PC? I saw an app for the iPhone6 that can even track your pupils (gaze direction)! Thanks for any info you can share Dave

@Denali, I'm not sure if you are using FlyInside with your setup, but if you are, you can select 3840x2160 as the generated resolution - even though the Note 3 screen can't quite show it at that resolution - particularly with enough antialiasing. I would have to guess that direct HDMI would have at least 50 milliseconds less lag than any kind of streaming but it probably doesn't matter with slow responding aircraft - maybe the F22 doing aerobatics might. I think one of the greatest things about FlyInside is the Asynchronous Time Warp features which attempts to keep the frame rate to the DK2 (not DK1) at 75 fps no matter what the FSX/P3D frame rate is - that seems to work pretty well with the PMDG 777 where again, it's seems smooth flying but the NAV and Engine displays don't have enough antialiasing. I'm not promoting the Oculus brand - just would like folks to see for themselves just what this type of VR gear can do for flight sim -so much more interesting than my three monitor setup. It would be real great if one had an f22 full scale cockpit mockup with everything just where the googles say they are - and fully functional - but used the goggles for the out the window scene. Dave

@Denali, I think that the CV1 version next year will in fact have the Note 4 display (or equivalent) but it is imperative to have the display driven via HDMI from your PC to become somewhat similar to a regular monitor so that FSX/P3D can drive the highres video (using regular Nvidia drivers) with proper shaders to work the distortion and AA, etc . What is important is to actually experience the ability to fly with the large FOV, superior head tracking where instead of the TrackIR requirement to still look at your forward monitor (sideways a bit), you get to turn your head completely naturally (1:1) and lean left/right or forward/aft. I will agree that the current DK2 feels like you need weak glasses (I do have to lean into EFIS displays with small fonts) and better antialiasing, still, the feeling of size when flying among large hills and mountains is hard to beat.

I have been very fortunate to have an Oculus Rift Dk2 ( https://www1.oculus.com/order/ ) temporarily provided to me for some evaluation. Also, with Dan Church providing FlyInside ( https://flyinside-fsx.com/ )as an interface to FSX or P3Dv2.5 , you can have an experience that really is amazing. The very large field of view (100 deg or better), decent resolution (there is a Samsung Note 3 OLED display in there), stereo vision, and superb head tracking (orientation and distance from camera) will really convince you that you're inside that virtual cockpit, and hilly terrain (including the Grand Canyon) will leave you in awe. I tried high end Virtual Reality equipment when I worked for Boeing up until 10 years ago and it just wasn't immersive - I felt that I was just watching an HDTV screen some distance away - this is just not like that - this is the way that flight sim should feel! Of course, there are a few requirements - you need a 4.2Ghz 4 core i7 and a Nvidia 900 series (I just have a 660ti) on Windows 7 64-bit plus a joystick/yoke controller with plenty of buttons because you can't see the keyboard (as yet) or your hands (as yet) - you keep wanting to reach out and touch or grab things that are in the virtual cockpit. The DK2 is $350 and next year, the Consumer Version 1 (CV1) is due out. Maybe you can find a gamer friend to let you borrow it for a couple days. I guarantee that you will truly enjoy flying an F22 inside the BlueSky (or equivalent) Grand Canyon scenery. I also enjoy flying a Bonanza around the old Megascenery Socal scenery or any Orbitz areas.You find that you will constantly be looking all around - even backwards (stay seated and don't hit anything) - and leaning in to see an instrument a little better. Right now, it is difficult to tune a radio but Dan and several others are working on it. Try it and see for yourself Dave