whitav8

I was on Windows 10 Version 1809 waiting for the clarity fix that came out yesterday. My update to 1903 surprised me initially by apparently wiping out all my Desktop icons and Documents folders. I couldn't get the WMR portal to start either so I decided to uninstall it. After rebooting my PC, everything (Desktop and Documents ) came back as before and the WMR Portal started installing itself and it remembered my boundaries. I then checked for updates and finally KB4507453 wanted to install. I checked out IL-2, P3D, and Aerofly FS2 which all seemed remarkably clearer ( the "0" zeroes seem really easy to read ) but the reprojection:motionvector seems somewhat an FPS killer but with reduced artifacting (maybe) - better with it off though. I will need to spend some time trying various combinations of SS (I use 180% and 1.25 in-game )and repro options as well as in-game graphics options. For an Odyssey+ user, the clarity seems remarkable ( Aerofly FS2 at Innsbruck especially seems much better ) - and it must be stunning with a Reverb. I do notice especially now the sweet spot effect of the Odyssey+ (I have the widmovr lenses instead of glasses ) so that I can aim the center of my VR vision at the FMS CDU and read it well without leaning but not unless it is in the center of my view. The scenery in the distance is also clearer which helps immersion.

Most of us map a button on our joystick/throttle (Like the Thrustmaster HOTAS ) to recalibrate origin.

Another improvement with Widmo/vroptician lenses is the lack of your glasses frame being seen. I wear large sunglasses but thin (top to bottom ) regular glasses and I would see the edge of my frames in VR before I got my lenses.

I had heard from several forums that IL-2 Sturmovik was very clear in VR - especially for us new Samsung Odyssey+ users. It is on sale (until March 20 ) on Steam for $17 (instead of $50 ) so I decided to see what others are saying about clarity and also excellent solid good frametimes. I wasn't interested in the "shoot-um-up" really - just to see what is possible with cockpit clarity - even though they are just steam gauges and not complicated modern instrument panels. The other reports were correct - it is very clear - with the Graphics Settings Options of Dynamic Resolution Factor = Full (Supersampling ), Antialiasing=4x, 4K textures and Sharpening enabled, it just is beautiful to see such clarity along with being able to see your target very clearly. It might not be so different than DCS (but my P-51 panel just doesn't quite look that nice ) or maybe the Pitts in Aerofly FS2, but it just seems clear. Also, there is no need for "lean in". It was an experiment because I just wanted to see what is possible with our "version 1.5" VR equipment - and the Odyssey+ is known for "soft focus" - but it really shines here. Dave W.

lewinr, You say you've spent a lot on the hardware - then I suggest you try out some of the different flight sims. Many of us have several and we use them in different scenarios and for different reasons. I think one of the responders already suggested that Leap Motion doesn't work too well yet for some flight sims - just make sure you have a good joystick / yoke with a separate throttle along with some buttons for gear/flaps/etc... Get your feet wet - get one or two sims and see what your son likes best. VR is a little challenging to set up and get good enough performance - and issues like IPD, clarity, comfort become issues to deal with as well. The flight sim seems to be a custom thing for each individual.

You might want to use a silicone “dry” lubricant

The lessons in Aerofly FS2 start from the VERY basic. The first lesson is just ailerons. The other dimension/orientations are held fixed and you simply bank until the pointer agrees with a commanded "wedge" graphic. Then pitch to 10, pitch to -10, etc. with no roll / yaw. There are 21 lessons before you get to landing. The vocal feedback is OK for younger students ("you are doing very well", etc.) but maybe a little annoying for older students. You are inside (or outside) a Cessna 172 near Watsonville Muni south of San Francisco with photorealistic scenery with mountains nearby. with standard instruments and you can ask the instructor to demonstrate or just fly it yourself and get a rating. https://www.aerofly.com/dokuwiki/doku.php/manual:flight_school https://www.aerofly.com/dokuwiki/doku.php/manual:beginners3 You can see what the tutorials are like on youtube - search for "aerofly fs2 flying school cris explora" Example:

I never tried FSX Flight school so I can't compare. You said that you wanted to use VR for your flying but I don't think that FSX is a great VR environment. Maybe you could use FSX Flight school for regular monitor usage at the beginning and then Aerofly FS2 later. EDIT: I looked at the FSX Flight School and it does look quite impressive ( http://www.fsflyingschool.com/ ). It could be used with Prepar3Dv4.4 or maybe even Xplane 11 with VR. I still like AeroflyFS2 for VR ease and other reasons but try them all!

For best VR support AND also best flight fluidity (very high frame rates even with VR) , quick scenario loading, and photo-realistic scenery flying with good image clarity, I suggest Aerofly FS2 available on Steam. (I have this very system - Odyssey+) . As you probably know, you need to download both SteamVR and Windows Mixed Reality for Steam VR. You need to have build 1809 of Windows 10, a 4 core or better cpu at 4.5Ghz or so, and the rest of your gear - I have the Thrustmaster HOTAS 4 instead of the yoke . I extended the length of my Samsung cable (not so much for sim flying but other small room scale apps) by getting the Vive link box and it's power supply (from Amazon), and the required male-male USB3.0 and HDMI 1.4 cables. I have Prepar3Dv4.4, X-Plane 11, WarThunder, and Combat Air Patrol 2, and they all are fun flying but I would definitely recommend Aerofly FS2 - especially because they have Flying Lessons and easy VR. It does have support for "virtual hands" using the Odyssey+ controllers but I still prefer actual yoke/joystick/throttles. The training will be a lot of fun - and then... Dave W.

MPatrickW, One thing you haven't mentioned (I don't think) is what clock rate (Ghz) you are running the 9700K at. Unless you specifically overclock it, it may be running at only 3.6 Ghz instead of something higher - like 5Ghz . I have the same chip and went to siliconlottery.com to pay a few more dollars for a 5.0 Ghz version that they have already tested. You may not be able to go that fast, but you should try. What Ghz did your old CPU run at?

It appears that the soon to be available version of Windows Mixed Reality is going to support Windows 10 apps being located inside our VR applications - like P3Dv4. This would be great for notes, charts, and moving maps - we'll see!

HiFlyer, this is an old version and shouldn't be used. This is a newer version: https://github.com/OpenVR-Advanced-Settings/OpenVR-AdvancedSettings

@Lorby_SI, Sorry to redirect this thread - thanks for the flashlight! Any chance that your scratchpad app would work in VR? We desperately need at least one window for kneeboard help! Thanks much - you are certainly a talented developer! Dave W.

You could try the following CFG setting. I don't remember if it works well in VR: In the configuration file CAMERAS.CFG there is a setting Clipmode in the section for VC. Changing the default setings (=normal) to =minimum can solve this problem, but it causes flickering textures in some cases.

@Brian, You have reason to wonder whether it will be easy to setup - it might be and maybe... Well, I suggest you get a lot of ideas from reddit Reddit - Windows Mixed Reality (which is what you will run with Odyssey+). You don't say what your PC is but if you are getting reasonable frame rates on three screens (separate views, not NvSurround) then you might be OK. I have a brand new PC with a 5Ghz i9 CPU, an Nvidia 2070 GPU, P3D on a fast SSD, and brand new motherboard with USB3.0 ports and running Version 1809 of WIndows 10 - along with my Odyssey+ With all of that, I had a fairly easy time of getting going with P3Dv4.4 (set with Single-pass VR) and I am able to run medium graphics settings (minimal shadows and 2xMSAA) in low density photoreal scenery (no major cities or airports nearby)at 45 fps. This 45 fps requires the forum discussed edit of the following file: XXX:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\MixedRealityVRDriver\resources\settings\default.vrsettings to read: // DHW - was 1.0 but 2.0 and SteamVR Manual override SuperSampling set at 200% is much more clear for instrument panels "driver_Holographic" : { "renderTargetScale" : 2.0 }, "driver_Holographic_Experimental" : { // Motion reprojection doubles framerate through motion vector extrapolation // motionvector = force application to always run at half framerate with motion vector reprojection // auto = automatically use motion reprojection when the application can not maintain native framerate // DHW The next line is commented out by default and should be for sims/games other than P3D "motionReprojectionMode" : "motionvector", You will need to install Windows Mixed Reality Portal unless it came with your WIndows 10 update. Then Steam and Steam VR, AND SteamVR Mixed Reality plugin. I start these applications first and make sure that all is well with the image of the Steam VR "Home room". I may have started P3D already and position myself with the scenario of choice in a non-VR mode. I use a HOTAS joystick (mine is the PS4 version of the Thrustmaster HOTAS.X) so I can use buttons for pitch trim, brakes, flaps, gear, speedbrakes, and HMD - Recalibrate Origin. A check of FPS should show above 100 before I go to VR Mode - which I do by using the Virtual Reality Tab of P3D and select SteamVR. The monitor screen should show two images and the FPS should be right at 45 which shows that the SteamVR reprojection mode is on and is providing half of 90fps "sync". Your flight should now be fairly fluid and the view is tremendous (but somewhat less clear than a monitor) - enjoy! As you can see from the Reddit forums, there are many folks having troubles with their headset working right out of the box because of HDMI or USB problems. I suggest getting those solved first before any hope for P3D. Best wishes Dave W.

Does anyone know exactly when the sale begins - example, 12:01am Nov 18th EST??

Jim, You list of steps for reinstall are great! I would ask that you copy this to a new topic and then pin it. The only additional comment is that we should make a batch script to make the Documents and etc folders easy and do it after each new major P3D addition maybe. I had to reinstall because I couldn't get Windows 10 to startup at all (repair wouldn't work ). At that point, it is really too late to be backing up since the only way to do that is to get a CMD shell running with installation media, do the copying with DOS-like commands, and then reinstall WIndows 10, and reinstall P3D (what a lot of effort!!). THanks for taking the time to make a great list of what's required! Dave W.

@Jim, I am directing this question / comment to you about the steps we should take BEFORE we do a windows 10 reinstall. Maybe this info - after suitable editing by several of us - should be pinned for this forum title. I just had to reinstall Windows 10 and erroneously thought that my scenario files would be left alone but I was wrong - anything that has to do with the "Documents" folders was erased. I would suggest that as much as possible of the control files be backed up. Here is a list for me: Scenarios - "C:\Users\USERNAME\OneDrive\Documents\Prepar3D v4 Files CFG files - "C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4" (Only some of these files will be needed or used for reference ) Scenery.cfg and more - "C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4" (Only some of these files will be needed or used for reference ) I also recommend each user developing a reinstall_apps folder with each application of interest setup.exe or xxx.msi type files plus website URLs - example for me, Anti-virus, DCS, GIMP, Irfanview, Java, Notepad++, OCCT, Oculus, Prepar3d_Aircraft_Scenery, Printer, Steam, Joystick, USB, Video Card, VisualStudio, WinRAR, etc.. Then reinstall Prepar3D (you won't be able to uninstall Prepar3D if you had to reinstall Windows 10 because you couldn't repair it )

I am a bit confused about Steam (Valve) Motion Smoothing because the Odyssey+ is running with Windows WMR - isn't it? A quote from your article: Valve’s Alex Vlachos tells Road to VR that Motion Smoothing is similar to Oculus’ ASW, but not identical. “We feed the last two frames from the application to the GPU’s video encode chip to generate motion vectors (which are very rough), then [Valve and Oculus each have their own] methods for filtering those vector fields and applying them to the most recent application frame to generate a new frame,” he said. “So ASW, SteamVR Motion Smoothing, and WMR Motion Reprojection are just different implementations of the same high-level tech.” Like I said above - I hope someone can do a great review on the Odyssey+ with a flight sim (maybe SweViver of Pimax 5k+ fame) - even though the Field of View is somewhat less than PiMax 5K+ (150 degrees Normal mode versus 110 degrees for Odyssey+ )

First off, you must understand that P3D just doesn't have enough performance even on a single HD monitor to provide a super smooth experience for VR. VR has to generate a slightly different 3D image for each eye (left / right) to get stereo to work and on top of that it is generating the image with a much wider field of view (100 degrees) than usual for a monitor (maybe 60 degrees) - more 3D objects to process. You should definitely use Single Pass Stereo mode for best P3D performance and you will need to make a lot of compromises to get fairly smooth operation. You need to start with a simple aircraft that has steam gauges and a fairly simple scenery area - not a high-end complex airport. You will be lucky to get enough performance to even run with Oculus ASW (half-frame repeat with simple pixel offsets at 45fps). A good rule of thumb is to see that you are getting at least 60 to 70 FPS when using a 2D monitor in the same scenery area, the virtual cockpit, and same settings. VR is the way to really enjoy a flight simulator in my humble opinion! I have P3D (which until recently wasn't much good for VR) and Aerofly FS2 (the best VR performance but missing any third-party aircraft) and even though I have three monitors for wide viewing, I much prefer VR since everything is to real world scale - even with less resolution currently. I was excited to see that the VRS F-18+TacPack bundle released recently would work with P3Dv4.2 and was hoping that it would run smoothly in VR with ASW (45 fps image interpolation). It turned out that I had to craft(tune) some very specific settings in order to fly without stutter - most of the time. My system is a medium performance PC running WIndows 10 - 4.2 GHz 6-core i7, Nvidia 1060 6gb, SSDs - so anything more than that should be able to add back some desirable features like the canopy model and cockpit shadows but I recommend that you start with these settings before you add back. I knew from previous experience that I had to be careful to use a scenery area that should have great performance due to its simplicity and lack of major airports, so I chose to focus on Kaneohe Bay on the northeast side of Oahu - the Marine airbase PHNG. I have the older Megascenery Oahu photoreal but there is a freeware project (that has a FPS reduction) for Oahu from the following: https://hawaii-photoreal.com/downloads-fsx-p3d/ Settings for Oculus Tray Tool: (use Steam VR settings for the Vive and WMR) Prepar3D SS=1.4 ASW Mode = 45fps Normal WMI P3Dv4.3 Settings Virtual Reality Tab On screen display mode = Double View Headset Display Mode = Single-Pass Stereo View Graphic Options DISPLAY FXAA=off, AA = 2XSSAA, Ani=8X, Texture=2Kx2K Frame Rate Target = Unlimited, Vsync=off, Triple=Off MimapVCmode = checked WORLD LOD=Ultra, Tess=High, Mesh=10m, TexRes=7cm Scene Complex = Dense, Autogen Dist = High, Autogen Veg = Normal, Autogen Bldg=Normal Water Detail = Low, No Bathymetry, No reflections SpecEffects = Medium LIGHTING HDR off No dynamic Landing-Lights = checked No lens flare Shadow qual = low, Shadow Dist = low Cast and Receive ONLY for External Vehicle and Receive for Internal (i.e. no cockpit shadows) WEATHER Cloud dist = 80 Cloud Cov = Medium Detailed clouds No more checks TRAFFIC None!! - this is a real performance downer APPLICATION Pause on task switch = unchecked Hope this helps! Dave W

This sounds more like a diffuser that is a simple optical layer (like scotch tape) that was tried by a lot of DK2 users to reduce SDE. Similar to the following:https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2dq69k/comparison_of_dk2_screen_door_effect_with_and/If it's not overdone - that is, it becomes blurry - this could be very nice. I like the price and the fact that it doesn't require any more CPU/GPU power. I think some reviews are in order (CV1, Vive Pro, PiMax5k+, Odyssey, Odyssey+) and for me, flight sims as visual benchmarks. I have heard that WMR headsets don't have an ASW (half-frame HMD rate)support really yet - maybe whatever Steam provides but not as good as ASW. Also, is the head-tracking good enough for flight simming?I'd like to see a PiMax 5K+ with a similar SDE reducer.

The cockpit graphics of the 787 are much more current than the 747 and somewhat similar to the Airbus A350. Just a thought

@DylanM, I wonder how many 4KHD large screen HDTVs the 2080ti could drive at a great frame rate?? Sounds great! But maybe just a very large curved 4KHDTV would perform better. I've noticed at Best Buy that I can get real close to a 4K TV - maybe the standard 30 inches for just standard PC work. Dave W.

Make sure your Power Management mode is Prefer maximum performance in the Nvidia Control Panel.

Thanks much - I'll try to make sure all those steps are followed Dave W.