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jackcnd

i7 at 4Ghz on eVGA MB = Stutters ?

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Suggestions?Having stuttering issues with an i7 system, I think the chipset or MB maybe the issue.I've built a number of FSX setups and using NickN's tips normally results in stutter free flight but with this i7 setup it has higher frame rate but the stutters make it very disappointing to the point of returning it.I have the system stable a 4GHz , 191x21 , memory at 8 8 8 24 1T 2:8. Speedstep is turned off.It flys for encoding video, etc but for FSX its clearly 2nd best with the stuttering.Using a eVGA x58 MB, gtx280, Vista 64 on a fast 7200.11 OS drive and fsx on a raptor.Framerate is locked at 30 and you can see it drop for no reason at times to 12 then jump right back.Tried unlimited as well, still see the drops. TBM = 70, and bufferpools set in fsx.cfg, thats all the tweaks.Set auto gen on just Dense, but when I fly low you can see the stutters often, also in network play.My 9650 core quad is smooth a silk, but not the i7.Maybe its the eVGA MB, or just the i7 chipset is too new, or running it on V64, I had wanted the P6T but it was sold out.Suggestions or comments on your i7 FSX setup?

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I wonder if increasing the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT would helpJust a thoughtOK i see you aklready did that, maybe lowering it then?and... if that MB has an NVidia chipset instead of the Intel....maybe it is to blame...

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Suggestions?Having stuttering issues with an i7 system, I think the chipset or MB maybe the issue.I've built a number of FSX setups and using NickN's tips normally results in stutter free flight but with this i7 setup it has higher frame rate but the stutters make it very disappointing to the point of returning it.I have the system stable a 4GHz , 191x21 , memory at 8 8 8 24 1T 2:8. Speedstep is turned off.It flys for encoding video, etc but for FSX its clearly 2nd best with the stuttering.Using a eVGA x58 MB, gtx280, Vista 64 on a fast 7200.11 OS drive and fsx on a raptor.Framerate is locked at 30 and you can see it drop for no reason at times to 12 then jump right back.Tried unlimited as well, still see the drops. TBM = 70, and bufferpools set in fsx.cfg, thats all the tweaks.Set auto gen on just Dense, but when I fly low you can see the stutters often, also in network play.My 9650 core quad is smooth a silk, but not the i7.Maybe its the eVGA MB, or just the i7 chipset is too new, or running it on V64, I had wanted the P6T but it was sold out.Suggestions or comments on your i7 FSX setup?
Lets go back over the basicsKeeping in mind I have no hands on experience with the EVGA boardHave you shut down the following items in the BIOS?Intel SpeedStep Tech DisabledIntel Turbo Mode Tech DisabledCPU Spread Spectrum DisabledPCI Spread Spectrum DisabledC1E Support DisabledIntel Virtualization Tech DisabledCPU TM Function DisabledIntel HT Technology Disabled <--- Hyperthreading (Note: Enabled for video encoding., disabled for coolest temp in clock as FSX has no i7 type HT support)Intel C-State Technology: Disable Have you indeed confirmed you are stable using the OCCT beta for i7 1hr CPU test http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpo...p;postcount=206and Confirmed you are 80c or less during that 1hr test using RealTemp beta 2.90 for i7 http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794...ealTempBeta.zipI am assuming the PSU from this system is able to deal with i7 in a clock and a 280.. a 750watt PSU at minimumIf the above is verified.. have you removed bufferpools from the FSX.cfg entry and tested? Are you using Nhancer as specified and have you confirmed the settings for both Profile and Global as I posted?This being Vista, have you updated Vista with any/all service packs and updates?How does this run in other 3D applications? Are there any visual stutter problems in tests like 3DMark?In Vista have you shut down UAC, Indexing service, Defender and any other AV/scanner product, note that AVG was known for causing stutters some time ago and requred not only the app but the service disabled to correct.. I do not know if that was ever addressed. Are there any background programs which may be addressing the system while you are running FSX?Have you tested this with other video drivers?If all of the above checks out there is something wrong and I can not say if it is the EVGA board/BIOS or install related (OS - FSX - addon). You should not be seeing the stutters and frame drop you describe

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Thanks NickN ... turning hyperthreading off looks promising, I'll know better after this weekend's online flying.Need to spend more time on your suggestions above, been short of time this week but a quick test with hyperthreading off seemed smoother.HT OFF also allowed me to drop my voltages, or maybe get up to 4.2 at the same voltage, hyper threading seems to come at a real cost ...Thanks again, I'll post an update again.

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So, did you find the solution? I also have i7 920 and I'm experiencing horrible stutters all the time.-------------------------------------Power Supply: LC8850 850WMotherboard: GA-EX58-UD4CPU: i7 920 @ 3,2GHzMemory: Mushkin PC3-14400 "Extreme" KIT2048MB DDR III 1600 MHzHard Drive: Western Digital WD10EADS "Caviar

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With every generation of processors, the techniques, meaning, and results of overclocking changes. The i7 has the memory controller integrated. It runs faster than any previous processors at stock speeds because of that. If your ambient temp is around 50 (hot summer), it means at 4.0 GHz one or more of the cores runs at 80 and up to 90 degrees celsius. That can cause stutters in FSX, especially if it is one of the cores adjacent to the memory controller. I question the NEED to run the new generation of chips at 4.0 GHz. Intel is doing a great job optimizing the envelope without the need to O/C. I have the 975 and I can run it at 3.3-3.5 (boost enabled) for ABSOLUTELY smooth FSX, no texture loading visible, or I can run it at 4.0, just by setting the multiplier to 30. I saved three flights and compared them with stock speeds and 4.0, and the results are (FPS capped at 60)1. Hong Kong PMDG 747, full AI STOCK =35-60, 4GHz = 37-602. Orbx YMML add-on, overview of airport, angle with lowest FPS I could find: STOCK=17.8, 4 GHz = 19.23. KSFO Stock 738 on runway, view to airport with full AI: STOCK = 39, 4 GHz = 40.2These minimal difference hardly justify almost DOUBLE the power consumption. (check Intel site for power consumption). I also tried a lower multiplier and different 'bus' speeds, but the difference in FSX gain is quite negligible. I guess with the next generation there will be even less need to worry about O/C. I am not saying don't OC - but you need to know what you are doing. Just making the chip faster is not the holy grail.Also, with the latest nvidia drivers, get rid of nhancer and all the all tweaks, especially BUFFERPOOL. It causes stutters on the latest cards+drivers.ANd if you love your new system, DON'T disable the safety features which keep the processor from overheating, as suggested above :(

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As mentioned.. the video card in this system is outmatchedHoweverI see another problemMemory: Mushkin PC3-14400 "Extreme" KIT2048MB DDR III 1800 MHz2GB? 4GB? @ CAS8If that is true that would be another problem with this systemSomething does not add up with that memoryhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820146775Is that the memory?If so not only are you NOT using enough memory.. .you are using the WRONG memory.. that is 1st generation DDR3 which is not intended for i7You need 2nd generation DDR3 @ CAS7 1600 ( CAS6 1600 is better) and 3x2GB of it rated for 1.65v

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Oh, sorry.... the guy in the shop said this RAM was not ok... so they gave me Samsung DDRIII SDRAM 2048 MBytes PC3-10700H(667MHZ) . I have 3 of those. Sorry for that false info. Is this ok?

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Oh, sorry.... the guy in the shop said this RAM was not ok... so they gave me Samsung DDRIII SDRAM 2048 MBytes PC3-10700H(667MHZ) . I have 3 of those. Sorry for that false info. Is this ok?
No.. its notIts cheap 2nd gen DDR3 memory that runs CAS 9/10 as slow as molasses in January in New Englandyou may as well be on a Core2 running DDR2 533 (or slower)

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I'm not happy right now. So this is the main reason for my horrible stutters? What is better to upgrade than... VC or RAM?

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I'm not happy right now. So this is the main reason for my horrible stutters? What is better to upgrade than... VC or RAM?
BothVC is well outmatched and memory is running slowStutters are caused by many things.. hardware, lack of proper system and FSX tuning, fragmented or slow storage system, background activity in the system while the application is running ... or a combination of one or moreIn your case I can see the hardware issue.. then there is setting the BIOS up to run the right parts correctly (memory timing and speed with stable CPU clock) ... after that verifying background activity problems or fragmentation and last proper tuning of FSX with the system/clock in useIn Vista/W7, with the nanny system, FSX never goes in the Program Files folder even with UAC disabled.. FSX is best served from its own drive or if another drive is not available, on the root of C:\ in its own folderyou can eliminate the other items.. but you will never overcome an outmatched video card on slow physical memory without purchase and setup of the right partsDriver 182.50 is the FSX golden driver right now for most system using the GTX 275, 280 and 285 video card products

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Driver 182.50 is the FSX golden driver right now for most system using the GTX 275, 280 and 285 video card products
This is an important point right now...the last few major nVidia driver releases are simply awful for FSX...major stuttering without remedy. I haven't seen any mention of what version is in use...I am using 182.52 right now on my 285GTX. Most of the video cards on the shelves have a driver version included that's a disaster in FSX. Get the 182.50 drivers from www.guru3d.com or the nVidia site.0Artur0, with your CPU at 3.2 GHz, you should run 1600 MHz RAM (160 BCLK with a 10x memory multiplier), CAS 6 is best, CAS 7 is acceptable, CAS 8 and up will slow you down.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

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Thank you for the info about RAM.My driver version is 190.38 64bit Windows 7.. so you say I should uninstall those and install older version (182.50 for Vista)?Edit:OK... I opened the case and checked the RAM... it says: MUSHKIN 3x2GB HP3-12800 1.65V 8-9-8-20... is this the poor RAM you were talking about? I don't know why Easytune utility said it's Samsung something something (screenshot a few posts above)? I'm confused. I have time till tuesday to return RAM or exchange it. Please help!

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Thank you for the info about RAM.My driver version is 190.38 64bit Windows 7.. so you say I should uninstall those and install older version (182.50 for Vista)?Edit:OK... I opened the case and checked the RAM... it says: MUSHKIN 3x2GB HP3-12800 1.65V 8-9-8-20... is this the poor RAM you were talking about? I don't know why Easytune utility said it's Samsung something something (screenshot a few posts above)? I'm confused. I have time till tuesday to return RAM or exchange it. Please help!
its the memory SPEED and the memory TIMING combination thats killing the performanceYou are running 1066 @ 8-9-8The absolute highest timing I can see 1066 running with results is 5-5-5 which is a heck of a lot faster than 8-9-8Even so.. at CAS 5-5-5 that 1066 memory speed is still not allowing everything i7 can deliver to the application, therefore as Bob pointed out, if you want the RIGHT memory speed and timing for your system which will in fact deliver the highest perf to the application, then you need DDR3 1600 CAS6 memory and you need to set it up in the BIOS so it runs the correct timinghttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820226050which is 6-7-6-18 timingNow.. thats just part 1. Part 2 is getting a video card that will run with that i7 and memory correctlyAnd yes, 182.50 is THE driver to use for the GTX series cards.. most find 182.50 the golden FSX driver.. how it will work in W7 I dont knowW7 is not what I consider a OS to move to for FSX performance.. not only is it still in its testing phase drivers are just now being developed for it. Regardless I have gotten at least 40 people OFF Windows7 and back to either Vista64 or XP x64 for FSX in the last 6 months due to perf issues. As far as I am concerned, until W7 is out and has been allowed the proper time for driver and other development I dont see ANY reason to use it, at all. The forums are full of hyped horse manure about W7. The OS will not in any way, shape or form run FSX faster or smoother than XP x65 or Vista64if someone says its does.. their old OS/FSX install was not right, period

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I know people do not understand memory speed and timingThey see the difference between the timing values 5-5-5 and 8-9-8 and assume.. hey, its only a difference of 3, so it cant be that bad or they read some story at a hardware site about how memory speed/timing does not matter, which is total hogwash!Well, in order to help people understand it without going into engineering, here is an analogy that puts this issue in perspective for non-tech individualsThe speed limit on a highway is 65MPH To FSX:Running 1066 @ 8-9-8 is like driving 30MPH on that highwayRunning 1066 @ 5-5-5 is like driving 50MPH on that highwayRunning 1333 @ 5-5-5 is like driving 65MPH on that highwayRunning 1600 @ 6-7-6 is like driving 75MPH on that highwayRunning 1700-1740 @ 6-6-6 like driving 85MPH on that highwayRunning 2000 @ 7-7-7 is the SAME as running 1700 @ 6-6-6 so if high speed DDR3 2000 memory is rated at 8-8-8 its SLOWER than DDR3 1600 @ 6-7-6!The higher the memory SPEED and the lower the memory TIMING the better the perf result as long as you understand the SPEED/TIMING rulesYour targets for best performance per speed are:DDR2 800 3-3-3DDR2/3 1066 4-4-4DDR3 1333 5-5-5 DDR3 1600 6-6-6 DDR3 2000 7-7-7

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Thank you for your help!One more thing...Also, with the latest nvidia drivers, get rid of nhancer and all the all tweaks...Is this true?

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Thank you for your help!One more thing...Also, with the latest nvidia drivers, get rid of nhancer and all the all tweaks...Is this true?
Not for me it isnt... still use Nhancer (2.5.1) and driver 182.50 for i7/GTX 285 and FSXI would use the same setup I posted in the tuning thread Nhancer is about visual quality.. Some people cant see the forest from the trees Some can: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=257161

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I started reading this thread with doom and gloom and then remembered my experience with memory.........It was long ago and I can't quote actual numbers... but I remember it this way..I upgraded my memory from 90ns memory to something like 9ns memory and could not see any real difference in performance... I'm sure benchmark scores would showa big difference but in the day to day use of my PC I saw no real difference. Now moving from 5400 rpm hard drive to a 7200... was a big obvious difference.I related the memory speed to something like increasing you MPG on your car... If I upped MPG from 10 to 15 MPG get a 50% increase, but If I go up it 10 mpg from 30 mpg the same increaseis now only 25% ... I feel memory timings and such are much the same...If your already going so fast it is hard to comprehend the actual speed then the poor old human will never really notice it.I have the slow as molasses in January memory CS 9 stuff.... but this review doesn't show any real difference in actual performance.. http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/cr...i_channel/5.htmNow does this mean you won't see a difference in FSX? I don't know, but my gut feeling is that it is not the bottleneck it is supposed to be.

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These tests show little or no difference in performance. I don't know how this applies to FSX.

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I don't know... and it just seems to be that shooting for $$$$ ram is not the best bang for the buck unless you are shooting at performance numbers..Lets face it... the number 4, 5, or 6 olympic competitor may not have won, but they are still world class competitors in their own right.I just can't see where the timings involved in any memory that is running in the Ghz range can really matter that much for a simulation running the frames per second FSX is.So even if you had FSX maxxed out and running at 60 frames per second.. your worried about memory timings in the Giga Hertz ranges having a real affect?I'm not disputing those who know more than I do, but I just don't see it making THAT much of a difference...I would love to see some numbers comparing FSX with different memory timings and speeds....

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I would love to see some numbers comparing FSX with different memory timings and speeds....
Me too!

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