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Tom Allensworth

A Question about thr RCS B-25

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Hi,Does anyone know if the RCS B-25 is going to be uploaded to avsim or another site that supports download resuming.Even though I am on ISDN I have had to restart the download twice this morning at about 90%, very frustrating.ThanksDan.

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Yes, they say it will be uploaded to all the major flightsim sites, and it deserves to be downloaded by every serious simmer. I like it more every time I fly it, and in many respects it's even better than the MAAM sim one. No VC though, but the team offers a good explanation for this omission.- Oyvind

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Yes, that explanation is that VC's are "gimmicks" and serious flight simmers and real pilots wouldn't ever use something as tacky or gimmicky as a VC without working switches. Well, I guess I don't pass the test and am not "serious" enough for this aircraft. I wonder if the jerk ever heard of pop-up windows...I'll be sticking to the MAAM aircraft and enjoy the fact that I supported a good cause - and the wonderful VC it offers. Colin

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>Yes, that explanation is that VC's are "gimmicks" and serious flight simmers and real pilots wouldn't ever use something as tacky or gimmicky as a VC without working switches. Well, I guess I don't pass the test and am not "serious" enough for this aircraft.

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Have anyone noticed the small references to his former assiciates in the manual? Things along the line of 'the team has now been enhanced since the last release' and 'for the first time I have been working with true professionals'. :-) Plus he now criticises the photoreal graphics that he used to praise and claims to be at the forefront of a new panel graphics revolution.Well, it is something I remember clearly from the R4D era, Roy Chaffin's products are always served with a bit of ego. But hey, the man sure knows how to program gauges! - Oyvind

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He penned a release that is at FS Gateway - and the tone was very similar. Sad really. I hope that his airplane doesn't hurt sales of Briefing Time. The musuem certainly needs the money. Seems like bad Karma to me to try to show up a non-profit...

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I had the same reaction when I read the manual. However, I think that the panel and aircraft does set a very high standard. It's an outstanding package and a real accomplishment. The jabs at MAAM-SIM are unfortunate because they are unnessary and detract from an otherwise outstanding contribution to flight simming.

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I couldnt help but notice that too ! After reading the first couple pages of the manual, I already was getting a "bad taste" in my mouth so to speak. Then to read that there was no VC since the graphics "would not be up to their high standards" I was already disappointed with this package. The best thing I found about this release is the engine sounds, and they are lacking in some areas. May just be my system, but I had no fuel pump sounds after switching them on and I also find it difficult to think that one could hear the flaps or gear being operated in any B-25 due to those big radials. Personally I like the MAAM version better. I guess I must be one of the "not so serious simmers" since I prefer the virtual cockpit along with active camera to get the illusion that I'm flying :) Just my .02 worth. I think I'll go grab my plotter, E-6b, and sectional charts and plan a virtual flight to Oshkosh in Briefing Time.Darrell

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Seems like we are judging the work by the tone of the readme and the packages comparison against a payware offering, rather than on its own merits or judged against other freeware.Is that right? Shouldn't we be simply judging it on its own merits and forget that a payware B-25 also exists? So much time in these forums is spent taking apart those who steam in to upset the freeware developers that perhaps we are forgetting to apply the same principles to this freeware release?So it doesn't have a VC. But it does have VFR and IFR panels for both pilot and co-pilot, it does have surround views including bomb aimers position, side gunner AND tail gunner and gauges which can even be seen by my tired old eyes without a microscope. It really moves the ballpark forward for FREEWARE in the same way that the Briefing Time release does for PAYWARE. After that, further comparisons are pointless, serious simmers into this kind of thing will get both anyway, and I can't see how a freeware release some time after the payware release can affect the commercial success of the latter. By the same token you could argue that `Briefing Time` should have been released earlier so as not to get tied up in the fanfare of FSACOF? Didn't see anyone putting that theory forward when BT was first out. Same argument, different face.I think it rather funny that the egos are fighting it out in this case. It doesn't have any bearing on my enjoyment of the package and the readmes in RCS B-25 are actually very funny!ChasW

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ChasMy arguement isnt directed at this aircraft as I dont even have it yet.My arguement is based at a statement that Real pilots or hardcore simmers would shun the VC as if the conventional 2d panels are somehow realistic and the VC is not.The fact of the matter is that for different reasons neither VC or 2D are realistic the 2D because you have to fly the aircraft as if you were sitting in a letter box and the VC for lack of functionality and poor frames.Filling the screen with a mass of pop up windows is also "Not Realistic".This is the silly state that we are in jumping from 2D to VC to pop up windows.Just imagine the real pilot trying to operate an aircraft in that manner.The Real pilot looking forward with his eyes still and head fixed will have around 60 degrees periferal vision either side of parallel lines running forward from his head.Turn his eyeballs right or left with his head still fixed and that will jump to 90-110 degreesUp and down will give 45 degrees from the horizontal with fixed eyeballs. All these figures dont even take into account moving the head left or right up or down.Really all these panel view options are a jack of all trades master of none solution and ONE workable system needs to be presented by MicrosoftPeter

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Just by looking at the screen shots I can see that this will not hold up to the quality of the Maam B25. I purchased the Maam B25 with a clear consience, knowing I will be assisting in restoring a piece of history. I am very glad I did! I can't blame people for wanting things to be free, but trust me and many others, once you purchase the Maam B25, you will toss your freeware out the window. I am glad that Maam released theirs first so that people would not be too distracted by a free version. I don't have to see it or read it. I am sure RCS worked very hard on their B25, and it is just my feeble opinion that theirs just doesn't have the same flare that Maam's has.

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Have you tried IL-2, Peter? (I suppose you have) The VC is still non-clickable, but the clarity is great, and there are effects similar to activecamera built right into the sim. Another detail i like, even though it is annoying at times is that it is impossible for the pilot to turn his head 360 degrees. I think that should be the standard for MS to beat. Even Janes WWII fighters released in 1998 have better VCs than the default fs2002.And how about the clickable VC in Janes F/A-18. At the time that sim was released MS didn't even have VC.- Oyvind

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Peter, At the end of the day it's still a TV screen and a few pixels, it's not real life. It's not even close to a real simulator, although it is getting better.BTW the popups make for easier conversion to a wideview multi-monitor setup, according to my young nephew who does such things.But the issue for me is not the quality of the work - we even have critics in this very forum who feel justified in criticising without even downloading it! We seem to be getting swept up in the disagreement between RCS Panels and MAAM, and I really don't give a toss whether `Bill` loves `Roy`, or `Russ` hates `Alan`, I just think we should accord this product the same level playing field as other freeware offerings, and let the egos go fight it out in a muddy field somewhere. If the worst that can be said against it is the manual doesn't appeal, then a whole heap of freeware authors ought to be quaking in their boots waiting to be condemned for their spelling mistakes or factual errors! The fact is we simmers don't cast out these people, we publically congratulate them for their contribution - and privately drop it from the hard drive. Why are we treating RCS Panels differently and why are we being allowed to do so by the site owners, when under normal circumstances such flaming sees a thread locked immediately? I hope it isn't due to some pressure on the commercial relationship between Avsim and MAAM as I have always liked to think of Avsim as independent, but some things I have seen here and elswehere suggest it may not be as clear cut as that.ChasW

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In reply to Peter,I agree that the VC isn't the ideal solution for the reasons he mentions (fps/limited functionality) but I feel it's a far better solution than the arcade game style 2d panels. I fly almost exclusively in VC mode. Active camera allows me to pan using my trackball, which is something akin to glancing around a cockpit for real. I can watch the threshold & monitor my position all the way through a turn, from base to short final, glancing back to check airspeed as needed. I have keystroke combos programmed for major functions, so theres rarely a need to switch back to the 2d panel or to use pop ups. Of course, active camera has limitations too. With a throttle, stick & trackball to manipulate, another hand would be helpful!LonelyplanetXO

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Sorry Dan, in all the fuss your question has got a little lost. I have had an e-mail back from Roy Chaffin and it seems most of the main sim sites have been offered the package, but pressure is being brought to bear by MAAM to have it barred. Whatever the rights and wrongs, that's a pretty scummy thing to do to freeware authors.ChasW

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