I read recently read somewhere that a United Airlines pilot had said a civillian member of the public could get a license or certificate from the FAA to be approved permission to the cockpit on a commercial flight.The writing said you would need captains permission before hand and that there are billions of forms needed.I only travel Non-rev and an immediate member of my family is an airline employee with full security check and airside pass.I thought this sounds interesting but I do not believe that the FAA would allow this oppotunity to a member of the public however I thought I would ask over here just to double check.ThanksRichy

I read recently read somewhere that a United Airlines pilot had said a civillian member of the public could get a license or certificate from the FAA to be approved permission to the cockpit on a commercial flight.The writing said you would need captains permission before hand and that there are billions of forms needed.I only travel Non-rev and an immediate member of my family is an airline employee with full security check and airside pass.I thought this sounds interesting but I do not believe that the FAA would allow this oppotunity to a member of the public however I thought I would ask over here just to double check.ThanksRichy

After 911, forget about it. Prior to 911 in the US, it was the captains option to allow passengers up in the flight deck. Now, the flight crew is REQUIRED to have the Door to the cockpit closed and locked prior to taxi.To be able to observe in the flight deck would require a good reason and just to observe for your own enjoyment would not be an option.JB

i managed to get in before taxiing, i was flying to vancouver and struck up a long conversation about flight with the pilot while we waited for boarding in the terminal so when i got on i said hey and checked it out - pretty amazing to see it all for real :(

Ah thats a shame but thanks for the reply.A few weeks ago I was lucky enough to be taking photos out of the window of an AA 777 and the Flight attendant spotted me and asked if I would like to take a look at the flightdeck.And ofcourse I put on the hat and sat in the FO seat.ThanksRichy

Ah thats a shame but thanks for the reply.A few weeks ago I was lucky enough to be taking photos out of the window of an AA 777 and the Flight attendant spotted me and asked if I would like to take a look at the flightdeck.And ofcourse I put on the hat and sat in the FO seat.ThanksRichy

On a recent flight, the gentleman in the seat adjacent to mine was a semi-retired Lockheed experimental aircraft pilot. He went to visit the flight deck prior to pushback, but as far as I know in flight visits for reasons already mentioned are a thing of the past.-John

from what I've seen at NCL only company employees, e.g. Commuting crew etc with the captains prior approval can ride the jumpseat

After 911, forget about it. Prior to 911 in the US, it was the captains option to allow passengers up in the flight deck. Now, the flight crew is REQUIRED to have the Door to the cockpit closed and locked prior to taxi.To be able to observe in the flight deck would require a good reason and just to observe for your own enjoyment would not be an option.JB

Hi, I was granted many time permission to the jump seat, just talk Aviation, and your in the good books :-PRgds James

Hello All,About a year before 9/11 I was taking a Conti flight to go look at some horses when the head flight attendant came up to me before taxi and said. "The Captain asked me to 'ask the Cowboy in the back to come up front for a minute'." I said sure, as I had never been in the flight deck of a 767 in the flesh so to speak so I was eagar to go, at the same time wondering why the 'boss' wanted to talk with me. To my astonishment, the Captain ended up being one of my old #2's from the Air Force. He said although it had been a million years, and the boots and hat sort of made me look different, he couldn't miss my nose and voice. ( I had thanked the FA upon boarding for her nice greeting). Before taxi, he asked if I would like to ride the jump seat on the flight and I accepted. We had the greatest time re living old memories, and I'm sure the FO got really bored with us two old farts talking about memory lane the whole time, not to mention my friend just about turned over the complete flight to him, <G>. Not to fear, between the three of us I think we had over 40,000 hours in big stuff and another 'brain' and set of hands is always welcomed in a crisis.I asked about the rules, he smiled and said he was 16 days before retirement and he was quite sure I wasn't a terrorist or going to highjack the aircraft. Today, after 9/11 I doubt if he could get away with that, but back then, I'm sure it was up to the Captains descretion. I really had a great time and have renewed a wonderful friendship. I just wonder how many youngsters have been guided towards a life of flying by a Captain asking if they would like to see the flight deck. It's a shame that with the world getting smaller we have lost that that option to invite passengers to see how we do it.Best to allClay

These sound like brilliant experiences and memories everybody has of visiting the flightdeck.And as B52Drivr mentioned being invited into the cockpit was what made up my mind about getting into aviation.Thank you everybody.Richy

Hi, I was granted many time permission to the jump seat, just talk Aviation, and your in the good books :-PRgds James

This was not an oppinion, this is straight fact. Post 911, many part121 company policies were mandated by the FAA. And one of those policies is the mandatory lockdown of the flight deck before taxi and until engine shutdown. If you or anyone else makes it into the flightdeck without an official necesity, then both the flight crew and the cabin crew are in violation of company policy mandated by the FAA. Breaking a rule like that could result in a part121 carrier losing thier certification. There are numerous other mandates as well. One other interesting one is the fact that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL THE OPERATION OF THE AIRCRAFT EVER BE JEAPORDIZED. This means, that no matter what happens in the rest of the plane, shall that Flight Deck door ever be unlocked. Losing 300 people is far less of a casualty, then allowing that aircraft to harm others not involved in the flight of the aircraft.JB

I read recently read somewhere that a United Airlines pilot had said a civillian member of the public could get a license or certificate from the FAA to be approved permission to the cockpit on a commercial flight.The writing said you would need captains permission before hand and that there are billions of forms needed.I only travel Non-rev and an immediate member of my family is an airline employee with full security check and airside pass.I thought this sounds interesting but I do not believe that the FAA would allow this oppotunity to a member of the public however I thought I would ask over here just to double check.ThanksRichy

From 2004 to 2008 I flew for a US Part 121 carrier - our aircraft did not have cockpit doors so there was nothing that separated us from our passengers - just a flimsy sliding partition that was held closed by velcro. Since the velcro never held the partition closed in turns - it would slide open when we banked one way, slide back the other way when we banked back the other way - we just left it open.Sometimes while we were making a landing I would turn around and find that most of the passengers had craned their necks into the aisle to see out the front cockpit windows. (It is like looking through a drinking straw from the passenger's point of view. They can see the runway swinging wildly in and out of view.)Another time a passenger decided that he needed to help after we shut down an engine in an emergency. It took a lot of time to convince him to leave (after we threatened him with interfering with a flight crew.)

From 2004 to 2008 I flew for a US Part 121 carrier - our aircraft did not have cockpit doors so there was nothing that separated us from our passengers - just a flimsy sliding partition that was held closed by velcro. Since the velcro never held the partition closed in turns - it would slide open when we banked one way, slide back the other way when we banked back the other way - we just left it open.Sometimes while we were making a landing I would turn around and find that most of the passengers had craned their necks into the aisle to see out the front cockpit windows. (It is like looking through a drinking straw from the passenger's point of view. They can see the runway swinging wildly in and out of view.)Another time a passenger decided that he needed to help after we shut down an engine in an emergency. It took a lot of time to convince him to leave (after we threatened him with interfering with a flight crew.)

Thats really interesting.. If you don't mind me asking, which Part 121 Carrier and which Aircraft specifically. The flimsy "ShowerCurtain" just doesn't seem right. And at this point, I am trying to picture an old regional turboprop that is or was currently flying in the US and for an aircarrier that didn't have a solid cockpit door.JB

Part 121 OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS

Subpart T--Flight Operations

Sec. 121.587Closing and locking of flight crew compartment door.[(a) Except as provided in paragraph (:( of this section, a pilot in command of an airplane that has a lockable flightcrew compartment door in accordance with Sec. 121.313 and that is carrying passengers shall ensure that the door separating the flightcrew compartment from the passenger compartment is closed and locked at all times when the aircraft is being operated.(:( The provisions of paragraph (a) of this section do not apply at any time when it is necessary to permit access and egress by persons authorized in accordance with Sec. 121.547 and provided the part 119 operator complies with FAA approved procedures regarding the opening, closing and locking of the flightdeck doors.]Amdt. 121-300, Eff. 1/15/2002 Now to reference Sec 121.313, which has given all Part 121 Carriers the option until 2007.... Although I believe all domestic Part121 carriers were very promt to abide by the early recomendations by 2003-2004 which I read somewhere in an industry magazine in late 2004. The big issue wasn't really the mandate to lock down the cockpit, but was the ongoing debate of whether the Captain should still maintain the ultimate responsability of passenger safety over the responsability of aircraft operation. The final decision was that another government agency would take on the responsability of pax safety and let the flight crew worry entirely about flying the plane. This decision led to many modifications to SOP's from boarding all the way to deboarding and also led to new technology to allow for redundancy in flight operations and flight control methods that to this day may be on current aircraft or in the testing and proofing phases.

Part 121 OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS

Subpart K--Instrument and Equipment Requirements

Sec. 121.313Miscellaneous equipment.No person may conduct any operation unless the following equipment is installed in the airplane: (a) If protective fuses are installed on an airplane, the number of spare fuses approved for that airplane and appropriately described in the certificate holder's manual.(:( A windshield wiper or equivalent for each pilot station.© A power supply and distribution system that meets the requirements of Secs. 25.1309, 25.1331, 25.1351(a) and (B)(1) through (4), 25.1353, 25.1355, and 25.1431(B) or that is able to produce and distribute the load for the required instruments and equipment, with use of an external power supply if any one power source or component of the power distribution system fails. The use of common elements in the system may be approved if the Administrator finds that they are designed to be reasonably protected against malfunctioning. Engine-driven sources of energy, when used, must be on separate engines.(d) A means for indicating the adequacy of the power being supplied to required flight instruments.(e) Two independent static pressure systems, vented to the outside atmospheric pressure so that they will be least affected by air flow variation or moisture or other foreign matter, and installed so as to be airtight except for the vent. When a means is provided for transferring an instrument from its primary operating system to an alternate system, the means must include a positive positioning control and must be marked to indicate clearly which system is being used.(f) A door between the passenger and pilot compartments (i.e., flightdeck door), with a locking means to prevent passengers from opening it without the pilot's permission, except that nontransport category airplanes certificated after December 31, 1964, are not required to comply with this paragraph. For airplanes equipped with a crew rest area having separate entries from the flightdeck and the passenger compartment, a door with such a locking means must be provided between the crew rest area and the passenger compartment. (g) A key for each door that separates a passenger compartment from another compartment that has emergency exit provisions. Except for flightdeck doors, a key must be readily available for each crewmember. Except as provided below, no person other than a person who is assigned to perform duty on the flightdeck may have a key to the flightdeck door. Before April 22, 2003, any crewmember may have a key to the flightdeck door but only if the flightdeck door has an internal flightdeck locking device installed, operative, and in use. Such "internal flightdeck locking device" has to be designed so that it can only be unlocked from inside the flightdeck. (h) A placard on each door that is the means of access to a required passenger emergency exit, to indicate that it must be open during takeoff and landing.(i) A means for the crew, in an emergency to unlock each door that leads to a compartment that is normally accessible to passengers and that can be locked by passengers.(j) After April 9, 2003, for airplanes required by paragraph (f) of this section to have a door between the passenger and pilot or crew rest compartments, and for transport category, all-cargo airplanes that have a door installed between the pilot compartment and any other occupied compartment on January 15, 2002;(1) After April 9, 2003, for airplanes required by paragraph (f) of this section to have a door between the passenger and pilot or crew rest compartments,(i) Each such door must meet the requirements of Sec. 25.795(a)(1) and (2) in effect on January 15, 2002; and(ii) Each operator must establish methods to enable a flight attendant to enter the pilot compartment in the event that a flightcrew member becomes incapacitated. Any associated signal or confirmation system must be operable by each flightcrew member from that flightcrew member's duty station.(2) After October 1, 2003, for transport category, all-cargo airplanes that had a door installed between the pilot compartment and any other occupied compartment on or after January 15, 2002, each such door must meet the requirements of Sec. 25.795(a)(1) and (2) in effect on January 15, 2002; or the operator must implement a security program approved by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) for the operation of all airplanes in that operator's fleet.[(k) Except for all-cargo operations as defined in Sec. 119.3 of this chapter, for all passenger-carrying airplanes that require a lockable flightdeck door in accordance with paragraph (f) of this section, a means to monitor from the flightdeck side of the door the area outside the flightdeck door to identify persons requesting entry and to detect suspicious behavior and potential threats.]Amdt. 121-334, Eff. 10/15/07

JB

Take a look at the Beech 1900, or J-31. They only have a curtain, not a door.Interestingly, dispatchers, check airmen, FAA inspectors, etc., sit in the first row of pax seats when they "jumpseat" on these aircraft.There's no violation of the FAR, it's just the way it is.Regards,Nick

Airlines and types - as above.Regions Air - J-31 / American ConnectionAir Midwest - B1900 / US Airways ExpressColgan Air - B1900 / US Airways ExpressSkyway - B1900 / Midwest ConnectGreat Lakes - B1900 Big Sky - B1900ComutAir - B1900 / Continential ConnectionIf you go to Denver today and book a flight on Great Lakes from Denver to Hays KS or Farmington NM, you'll be on a flight and you can access their flight deck in flight. If you bring your own headset you can plug in and listen in on the flight crew.When it comes time for captain type rides - the FAA inspector shows up, sits in the passenger cabin in seat 1A, and observes the flight crew from the passenger cabin.That's just the way it is.On one flight I happened to have Grant and Kari of Mythbusters fame ride as passengers, so Grant got a headset. No he didn't get to test his cellphone interference with navigation instruments theory. Although we can tell when pax turn on their cellphones, all the radios get clobbered by the cellphone crosstalk.