New Technology Hard Drives...

[Dillon 2,198]

Anyone hear of the new technology hard drives that are in essence like a big USB stick. There's no turning parts in them making data access that much more fluid. Something like that would do wonders for FS, conventional load times would be cut in half if not more. I forget the actual name of this new technology but it looks promising just the same especially it's potential in the confines of our hobby. If you think of how efficient video card ram is it's a no brainier how this new technology could influence in-sim performance. Data access would all but be instantaneous or in other words texture loading throughout the sim would be a non issue (we wouldn't notice texture loading like we do today).

[ZachLW 37]

You're referring to Solid State Drives, and they are impressive. I'm gonna give these things some time to mature before I buy one. They're pretty expensive per GB, and my caviar black and barracuda get the job done well.

[Bob Scott 7,745]

You're referring to Solid State Drives, and they are impressive. I'm gonna give these things some time to mature before I buy one. They're pretty expensive per GB, and my caviar black and barracuda get the job done well.

I'm using a 160GB Intel X-25M SSD for flight sim...biggest differences are much faster sim load times, and near-complete elimination of stuttering associated with scenery loading, especially in turns or taxiing through complex scenery with lots of AI.It's expensive right now, though, my 160GB drive was close to $600. The prices on these devices are dropping steadily. And the technology is not mature, either...there are lots of SSDs with big problems still, which is why I paid a premium for the fairly bulletproof Intel. It's a good fit with my 4.4 GHz i7. Avg access latency is almost 100x faster than a 10,000 RPM Velociraptor, which is what I use for the OS drive. RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[bogbrain 0]

Would you post your computer's specs please!

[Illegitimi non carborundum 4]

Hi AllCol Scott is absolutely spot on - yet again. One thing to remember is to ensure that the drive supports a "TRIM" function (XP and Vista don't natively - W7 probably). Apparently if you delete a file/folder on a SSD it can slow down the read/wrtite times because it has to check that there is now room where the deleted file/folder was. Reports of up to 20% slowdown have been reported and the "TRIM" function obviates this. As I understand it most of the Samsung based drives support a version of "TRIM" as do the Intel drives and most of the newer offerings from OCZ etc. I'm not sure how important this is, but I report it so that potential buyers can research this function and decide for themselves.RegardsPeterH

[Bob Scott 7,745]

Hi AllCol Scott is absolutely spot on - yet again. One thing to remember is to ensure that the drive supports a "TRIM" function (XP and Vista don't natively - W7 probably). Apparently if you delete a file/folder on a SSD it can slow down the read/wrtite times because it has to check that there is now room where the deleted file/folder was. Reports of up to 20% slowdown have been reported and the "TRIM" function obviates this. As I understand it most of the Samsung based drives support a version of "TRIM" as do the Intel drives and most of the newer offerings from OCZ etc. I'm not sure how important this is, but I report it so that potential buyers can research this function and decide for themselves.RegardsPeterH

Flight Sim is a pretty good application for SSDs since pretty much all of flight sim's time-critical disk activity is reading texture and bgl files from the HDD. Putting the OS on an SSD is more problematic...it's a bad idea, for example, to have the paging file on the SSD due to the large amount of disk write activity that generates.The trim function isn't super-important if the SSD is not being used with apps that do a lot of disk writing. The SSD's firmware has a write-levelling routine that moves data around in order to keep the number of writes per cell spread evenly over the disk. So once all the blocks across the entire disk have been written to, the wear levelling code in the SSD will move existing data around so that the total number of writes to any given block is fairly even (in other words, you don't have a bunch of space where data just sits and another part of the disk getting hammered over and over by recurrent writes). That can slow writes (but not reads) down, as the SSD will have to do two writes for each sector written when the wear-levelling routine decides to move the data (one to move the existing data, a second to write the new data into the block vacated by the move). Add to that the fact that the SSD writes data in 4K blocks, but only erases much larger 512K blocks. The TRIM function allows the OS to tell the SSD's firmware which 4K blocks are actually not in use by the OS, so the movement of data from blocks containing static data happens as a regular housekeeping task well before the OS needs to write data. The takeaway, if you're getting lost in the details, is that the TRIM function keeps an SSD's write performance from slowing way down once all the sectors on the disk have been written to at least once. The read performance is not affected in any case, so flight sim performance would not be noticeably affected by the presence or absence of the TRIM function.Important: one key caveat here is that you MUST disable the file stamp on access feature of the OS, as it turns every file read operation into a write operation as it writes the date/time of the last file access each time the file is read. This is a must-do OS tweak for any sort of gaming anyway IMHO...but those that don't make this change to disable file access stamping will indeed see slowdowns on their SSD after it's cycled through all the available cells once.CheersBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[Bob Scott 7,745]

Would you post your computer's specs please!

My 'puter:Intel i7-975 CPU, overclocked to 4.4 GHz on water cooling (BCLK 142, CPU multiplier 32)eVGA 3x SLI X58 motherboard6GB (3x2GB) Mushkin 6-6-5-18-1T DDR3 1600MHz RAM--OC to 1704 MHz (12x mem multiplier)PC Power and Cooling Silencer 910W single-rail power supplyeVGA GTX285 2GB Video Card--OC to 675MHz Core ClockWestern Digital 300GB Velociraptor 10,000 RPM HDD (OS and non-perf critical programs)Intel X-25M 160GB MLC Solid State Drive (FS9/FSX)Western Digital Caviar 1TB 7200 RPM HDD (mass storage/backups) -- connected via eSATA port as neededWindows Vista 64 Home PremiumRegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[ZachLW 37]

My 'puter:Intel i7-975 CPU, overclocked to 4.4 GHz on water cooling (BCLK 142, CPU multiplier 32)eVGA 3x SLI X58 motherboard6GB (3x2GB) Mushkin 6-6-5-18-1T DDR3 1600MHz RAM--OC to 1704 MHz (12x mem multiplier)PC Power and Cooling Silencer 910W single-rail power supplyeVGA GTX285 2GB Video Card--OC to 675MHz Core ClockWestern Digital 300GB Velociraptor 10,000 RPM HDD (OS and non-perf critical programs)Intel X-25M 160GB MLC Solid State Drive (FS9/FSX)Western Digital Caviar 1TB 7200 RPM HDD (mass storage/backups) -- connected via eSATA port as neededWindows Vista 64 Home PremiumRegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

Parts are in the mail for a system much like yours, minus the x25 and Vista. I'll still be waiting until SSDs are affordable, as my income is squeezed during Fall/Spring semester (darn friends and their eating habits).Les, are you thinking of buying one of these things?

[Bob Scott 7,745]

Parts are in the mail for a system much like yours, minus the x25 and Vista. I'll still be waiting until SSDs are affordable, as my income is squeezed during Fall/Spring semester (darn friends and their eating habits).

The SSD is a "nice to have" rather than a "must have." The system will still put a big smile on your face.Enjoy!Bob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[Illegitimi non carborundum 4]

Col ScottThanks for explaining the "TRIM" function.RegardsPeterH

[jackcnd 0]

Important: one key caveat here is that you MUST disable the file stamp on access feature of the OS, as it turns every file read operation into a write operation as it writes the date/time of the last file access each time the file is read. This is a must-do OS tweak for any sort of gaming anyway IMHO...but those that don't make this change to disable file access stamping will indeed see slowdowns on their SSD after it's cycled through all the available cells once.CheersBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

How ? What OS?It looks like its disabled by default in Windows 7, I just opened a text file and the last accessed date did not change in file properties....Thanks.

[Bob Scott 7,745]

How ? What OS?It looks like its disabled by default in Windows 7, I just opened a text file and the last accessed date did not change in file properties....Thanks.

In Vista, open a command window and enter: fsutil behavior set disablelastaccess 1and then reboot.In XP it has to be done by manually modifying the registry setting. Use regedit to find key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\FileSystem and set DWORD value NtfsDisableLastAccessUpdate to 1. Then reboot.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[Guest walker450]

Hello all. First post on this forum. First off, thanks to everyone that adds so much value to these forums by exchanging your knowledge and wisdom.Within the last week or so, I have become more interested in getting more performance from FSX. I have started adding new scenery and aircraft.I read a guide by Nick that I found at simforums.com. In the guide he recommends dedicating a HD just for FSX. I have decided to do this and I have picked the X-25M by Intel to do it with. This in itself brings up many many questions. :)Bob, I see that you recommend doing the above OS changes to prevent every read command also performing a write command. I will do this for sure! Thanks!My next question is whether or not I should connect the X-25M directly to my motherboard via an extra SATA port, or if I should buy a PCI controller card... Here is where this question stems from:Here is a post from Nick regarding my question about using the X-25M for FSX:

out of all the SSD's on the martket that is the one to use however I will warn that it is best served off of a card which will allow AHCI be enabled. Running AHCI on the motherboard ports reduces HDD performance for high end data read systems which are not part of a office network system. That feature will reduce the performance of any VrapPlease see Bob Scott's posts in this thread for further information about SSD and how to configure Windows correctly for it usehttp://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=256411

So... can anyone elaborate on this? Especially those with SSDs already...Also, I am wondering if a X-25M will outperform a Vrap when only connected to the motherboard, without a controller. Wow... sorry to make such a long post.Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!

[Guest walker450]

I forgot to add my system specs...EVGA 780i FTW motherboard Intel Q9550 2.83 GHz 2x2GB ocz Reaper RAM 2x EVGA GTX280 in SLI (single monitor) 150GB Velociraptor HD (OS/FSX) 500GB Barracuda (music/video storage) Vista 64X-25M on the way...