FSUIPC is now Payware???

[John_Cillis 2,406]

You'd understand why I went "crying to the moderators", if you could understand that the impact of the statement I questioned could get this site shut down, ruining it for all of us. People need to watch their assumptions in these forums--else all of us lose the privilege of being here.

[Guest]

Oh brother! Another post looking for a lock. Everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how positive or negative it may be.I don't like the idea of Pete's FSUIPC going payware either. But after reading some other posts and comments about it here, I agree with some folks about the need for collecting on some long overdue debts from the other payware developers. They're making a huge profit and Pete is left with nothing. It cost's money just to run his website alone need I remind you all.Doing something for the fun of it and sharing your efforts with everyone is one thing. Having to pay for everyone elses enjoyment on a daily basis is another. If the payware groups would have shared some of their profits with Pete for which some of their products would not even work without his software, then maybe Pete wouldn't be faced with this dilemma. Yet then again, Pete may want a piece of the pie just for the sake of it. Not knowing him personally, I don't know exactly what his motivations were and neither do any of you.This action will just motivate some developers to come up with something similar and offer it as a freeware product. And then the process begins all over again! Speaking for our group, we'll be offering some payware products soon as well to cover our operating costs. When that happens, you gonna come back here and bash us too? There will be a difference of course. We'll still be offering freeware products too. But then all you critics out there will find some reason to nitpick even more.Face it, FS in general is going commercial in the long run in the biggest way. Time is money and it takes time, lots of it, to develop something for all of us to enjoy. While attending the "round table" session for FS2004 some months back, it was clear during and after leaving, that the only thing Microsoft was concerned with, based on all the questions brought up by the moderator, is that MS was trying to monopolize on all the add-on products currently available to us through both payware and freeware sources. They didn't care what we had to say about FS wants and needs. I'll admit, that a very few select items were addressed, but they are very small changes. So, your here bashing Pete for grabbing a piece of the action? Just wait! MS already has that plan in their sights. Then what are going to do?Mike BaumannFlight FX Design GroupStewart Global Aircraft

[Guest]

>The only difference is that I`m not going crying to the>moderators.>Do you do that with every post you don`t like?Go find a>kleenex and have a good blow.It`s just a shame you edited your>post.>Mr. Iron Claw,I

[MarkRey 16]

IMHO the bottom line is the consumer can choose whether to buy something or not. I choose to buy fsuipc for fs2k4 if the addon makers, or MS itself don't beat Pete to it by making it redundant.Thanks to POSKY, PA and Pete for all the freebies, and thanks to PSS for the best goshdarned (hyuk) A3xx money can buy.Regards,MarkPs: where in heck does it say that this or any hobby should be free???? - I just don't get it (obviously)

[Guest Tim W]

Just about every commercial product released these days requires FSUIPC to run it. As do most freeware products. I'm sure Pete has no problem with the freeware designers using his module but I can understand him getting peeved that commercial enterprises are making money out of using a module he created for nothing and has supported for many years. Anyone who doesn't understand that point must be living in a dream world.I do feel that any commercial venture should pay Peter Dowson a licence for using his product. I don't feel I as a private person should have to pay to use a product that already uses FSUIPC if that developer has paid too.However I would do that and in fact have already made a donation to Peter when this first all came out. Just because I support the work he has done for the FS community and because he is an extremely nice and humble man.Also by the way one other thing that really gets up my nose is people who post messages on forums without using their real names, I was under the impression that that was not allowed on this forum, besides which it is extremely bad manners.RegardsTim WestnuttMAAM-SIM Teamhttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/16523.gif

[Guest JeanLuc_]

Hi Mike,I'm quite intrigued with your comment "MS was trying to monopolize on all the add-on products currently available to us through both payware and freeware sources".Won't you mind elaborate further?

[Guest]

You cant be king of the hill forever. Some talented programmer will recreate the functionality in FSUIPC. Trust me. I dont blame anyone for trying to make some money and if someone puts something out for free that does what the payware does then so be it.BobG

[Guest Pardue802]

>What have you ever contributed to the hobby? I admit, I>have neither the time, talent nor inclination to make scenery,>planes, etc. I appreciate the freeware, but know that I have>no entitlement to any of it, except out of the gracious>generosity of the creators.Well, he did say that he developed several planes back in the days where there were no clever GUI's or GMAX or whatever. I agree with his sentiments completely. The fact that everyone is jumping all over him is a response to precisely how "un"civil this hobby has become.Kenneth

[Guest]

You pretty much had to be there. Sorry, can't remember all the details, but basically they wanted to know "how we felt" if MS did certain things with add-ons and groups etc. I don't recall all the specifics because it was some time back. We kept bringing up issues with FS and the moderator kept bringing up "what if MS did this" scenario. In short, compiling all that was discussed together into one, MS was trying to get input from us on how we would react if they slowly tried to monopolize the market of add-ons for FS.Many folks that were there that I've been able to talk to since all agree that's what it was all about. Even the questionaires we filled out lead to the same thing. Very little attention overall was paid to what FS needed etc. Some that were there may dispute this and may have saw it a completely different way. Having been in this type of scenario many times in business life, it was easy to spot what the real motives were.Mike BaumannFlight FX Design GroupStewart Global Aircraft

[Guest KenG]

Don't like it, don't buy it.Think you can do better for free, try it.That's just some advice that comes to my mind. Don't like it, ignore me.

[ABE 0]

I recall there was an offer or a statement by somebody who is possibly working on an alternative to FSUIPC which would be FREE. This way everybody should be happy. Those who are willing to pay and those who are not.Hopefully, we shall all have a choice. And we shall all live happily ever after.Abe

[ejoiner 21]

I dont begrudge Pete Dowson from making money as a result of his own hard work. He deserves that as we all might expect for ourselves. However Im still greatly disappointed in this development. FSUIPC represented one of the truly great freeware contributions to our hobby and Petes efforts todate have been symbolic of the power we as users can contribute collectively. I guess any great success deserves reward though.I'll pay the money and enjoy the continued fruits of the labor. I just hope the price is reasonable. I also hope though that competitive tools become available to push peter to continue to grow this tool and increase its value continuously like he has put forth up to now.Eric

[Guest ozhero]

Why do some people expect (and in many cases demand) something for nothing? It is almost like the petulant teenager who has rich parents and then expects that the world owes him/her a living as they grow up.I also wonder why people always bring out the "I'll get my lawyer onto you because it sounds like libel" post when they don't like a particular post. In my opinion (which I am legally entitled to have :-) ) proving libel (or defamation)is difficult and can make a lot of money for lawyers without doing a lot in real terms for the parties involved. Most times this is an empty threat and everyone knows it so why make yourself look silly (in my humble opinion of course)?I have also been in this hobby since the very first flight simulator and have had this obsession for over 30 years. I even used to program lunar landers and other flight type simulations on MainFrame computers before there were such things as PC's or even graphical terminals.I am more than happy to reward the people who put out the effort to bring out the best software and hardware that continues to make this hobby more and more enjoyable as I get older. When you stop and think about it there are very few hobbies that just keep getting better and better as time goes on.I certainly support the idea of a community that adds to this hobby for free and I thank them sincerely for the efforts they put in for our collective enjoyment. However I also don't go bleating everytime someone wants to be rewarded financially for putting in a large effort on our collective behalf to drive our hobby forward. I have probably spent thousands of dollars just on add-ons(in Australia dollars which means I have sometimes been paying twice as much as you lucky Americans) and from an entertainment value, and from an education and satisfaction value, I have gotten great value for my money. I am also still staggered at the great add-ons that come out for free and for the great virtual communities (eg AVSIM, VATSIM and many others)that add so much to our hobby for no financial reward from its members.It is quite simple really. If you don't want to pay for it, then don't buy it and spare us the bleeding heart bleatings that the sky is falling in because people are creating payware. We really don't care if people are staying on FS2002 or FS5 for that matter just as some luddites are probably still running DOS and complaining about the new fangled Graphics and saying "I'm not going to be paying for none of them mice".For those people who really don't have much money then I am very glad that there is a freeware community and that you can still take part in this great hobby. Please note that my comments are not directed at you but rather the people who could really forgo some other luxury (perhaps that carton of beer or whatever you call it in the USA :-) ) and purchase the add-on that will bring far more lasting enjoyment.Long live this great hobby of ours and the talented and hard-working people (freeware or payware) that make this one of the greatest hobbies and virtual communities on earth.

[Tabs 2,790]

I'm dumbfounded that people expect someone to spend an inordinate amount of time (we're talking YEARS here folks) producing something like FSUIPC or any of the other must-have addons out there for FS, and then balk at the thought that the person should be financially compensated in any way for his/her time and energy. Would you do your job (and yes for someone to maintain and support any software codebase the way Pete has with FSUPIC, it does become a job) for several years for free? Wouldn't it also upset you if the people above you in your company or whatever you do were profiting from your groundwork, while you continued on without compensation. This mentality is ridiculous - I have no problem whatsoever paying the fee for FS2004 FSUIPC when it's released. I'll admit I didn't contribute a donation back when this all started, but as others have pointed out, it was obvious from the start from the kinds of responses that started this thread that FSUPIC would have to become full fledged payware for Pete to make back anything sizable from his investment. Had I known that a donation would have guaranteed a complimentary licence for the payware version, I'd have done it in a heartbeat.Bottom line, we live in a free enterprise system folks - if you don't think Pete's work is worth your money or if it's against your psuedo-moralistic ideals to pay for FS software (you bought FS didn't you??!) then don't buy it. Just be prepared to accept the consequences of not being able to use addons that require it.Ryan

[Guest jase439]

I have nothing against capitalism. If people can earn a living doing what they love - more power to them.That said, while I do not fault Pete for taking this position - many other freeware authors have preceded him in this regard - it's symptomatic of our changing hobby. Their motivations are, in most cases, justified and sound. But the fact that freeware has become an onerous, burdensome, support-ridden, chained-to-an-oar endeavor speaks more about what we've become as a community of hobbiests than anything else. While my own contributions to the hobby have been a mere fraction of what others have contributed, I have felt the squeeze. Whatever joy or reward that once came from embracing the hobby through freeware is being slowly snuffed out 1 developer at a time.So I do agree - the hobby is changing - not by virtue of what the developers have chosen by going payware, but because of the shifting attitudes in the community which drive them to it.J