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Guest Ron Freimuth

FSUIPC is now Payware???

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HiVery well said.I could`nt agree more.Chances are I used on of your creations at one point so thanks for your efforts and the spirit in which they were given.

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I have to ask a couple of questions....-first, there is already a lengthy thread on the subject--why didn't you contribute there, vs. drawing attention to your thoughts via a separate thread. Are your concerns that unique?-second, this is your first post to the forum, to comment on this issue? If you feel our hobby a way of life, why haven't you been participating with screenshots, anecdotes, helpful advice? Why make your first contribution a rant?Now, just sit back a sec and listen. Payware vendors have been profiting from Pete's work for a long time. Does Pete get paid? I doubt it. Have you ever opened a thread citing the injustice of this? Even I read Pete wrong when I first learned this was coming. I thought of it from my own selfish perspective. But being a freeware contributor myself, I know the pressure Pete feels. And I think in his case, it's come down to a choice where he has to get paid to be able to update his program. If I had a community begging me to keep my apps up to date, and I couldn't as I needed means of support, then I'd be left with the same choice. My work doesn't rate the praise Pete's does, so I have no one begging me.Pete is making some allowances for freeware tools. But the man deserves to make a living based on his talent. We live in a free market--not a social commune where everyone is expected to share.My rant is over....

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ditto here too! To the original poster. Well said.

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"a vile commercially motivated enterprise"what, are you talking about? It is still a hobby for aviation enthusiasts. there are hobbyists who create for the pleasure of creation. There are people who want to make a little money for their efforts that you have no hesitation in using for free. What have you ever contributed to the hobby? I admit, I have neither the time, talent nor inclination to make scenery, planes, etc. I appreciate the freeware, but know that I have no entitlement to any of it, except out of the gracious generosity of the creators.Mr. Dawson has made one of the most significant creations for the hobby. I do not blame him, or anyone else, who decides it is time to charge for the effort. Especially with FSUIPC, this software has made several commercial products possible. Why should not Dawson benefit, too.BTW, do you think Orville and Wilbur just built their first plane for the sheer pleasure? Sure, they were tinkerers and experimenters, but the profit motive guides progress, pure and simple.Sherm

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No one forces anyone to release anything as freeware. If you enjoy the hobby and want to contribute to further it, have fun. If your a businessman looking for avenues of profit, good luck. Just make a distinction about what role you are actually wanting to have.

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It is obvious from your comments you have not taken the time to read and understand his comments.Please do this before you make your second post to the forum...RegardsRussell Jourdain (NZL007/ZK-RHJ)

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Edit: Removed text due to prompt response by the forum mods...

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And I have questions about the legality of this post!! Sounds close to libel to me!!Barry

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Unfortunately the Wright brothers were so concerned someone else might steal their ideas, they spent all their time in the Patent office and court roomsletting the real entrepreneurs of flight pass 'em by. Such a thing as being too protective of your inventions.Racartronit means something, but I just can't remember what

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Hey CiEveryone is entitled to their opinion.Just beat it bub

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Well, by your own thought, you are telling me I don't have a right to my opinion. So I suggest you be the one to get lost, dude....

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well the way i see it is all the payware companies (PSS,Wilcopub, Dreamfleet, etc) should be forking aver a percentage of their profits to pete. sorry payware companies, i love your products but you should be paying pete some royalties.

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The only difference is that I`m not going crying to the moderators.Do you do that with every post you don`t like?Go find a kleenex and have a good blow.It`s just a shame you edited your post.

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Ken...Feel free to remove his post and my response....-John

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You'd understand why I went "crying to the moderators", if you could understand that the impact of the statement I questioned could get this site shut down, ruining it for all of us. People need to watch their assumptions in these forums--else all of us lose the privilege of being here.

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Oh brother! Another post looking for a lock. Everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how positive or negative it may be.I don't like the idea of Pete's FSUIPC going payware either. But after reading some other posts and comments about it here, I agree with some folks about the need for collecting on some long overdue debts from the other payware developers. They're making a huge profit and Pete is left with nothing. It cost's money just to run his website alone need I remind you all.Doing something for the fun of it and sharing your efforts with everyone is one thing. Having to pay for everyone elses enjoyment on a daily basis is another. If the payware groups would have shared some of their profits with Pete for which some of their products would not even work without his software, then maybe Pete wouldn't be faced with this dilemma. Yet then again, Pete may want a piece of the pie just for the sake of it. Not knowing him personally, I don't know exactly what his motivations were and neither do any of you.This action will just motivate some developers to come up with something similar and offer it as a freeware product. And then the process begins all over again! Speaking for our group, we'll be offering some payware products soon as well to cover our operating costs. When that happens, you gonna come back here and bash us too? There will be a difference of course. We'll still be offering freeware products too. But then all you critics out there will find some reason to nitpick even more.Face it, FS in general is going commercial in the long run in the biggest way. Time is money and it takes time, lots of it, to develop something for all of us to enjoy. While attending the "round table" session for FS2004 some months back, it was clear during and after leaving, that the only thing Microsoft was concerned with, based on all the questions brought up by the moderator, is that MS was trying to monopolize on all the add-on products currently available to us through both payware and freeware sources. They didn't care what we had to say about FS wants and needs. I'll admit, that a very few select items were addressed, but they are very small changes. So, your here bashing Pete for grabbing a piece of the action? Just wait! MS already has that plan in their sights. Then what are going to do?Mike BaumannFlight FX Design GroupStewart Global Aircraft

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>The only difference is that I`m not going crying to the>moderators.>Do you do that with every post you don`t like?Go find a>kleenex and have a good blow.It`s just a shame you edited your>post.>Mr. Iron Claw,I

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IMHO the bottom line is the consumer can choose whether to buy something or not. I choose to buy fsuipc for fs2k4 if the addon makers, or MS itself don't beat Pete to it by making it redundant.Thanks to POSKY, PA and Pete for all the freebies, and thanks to PSS for the best goshdarned (hyuk) A3xx money can buy.Regards,MarkPs: where in heck does it say that this or any hobby should be free???? - I just don't get it (obviously)

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Just about every commercial product released these days requires FSUIPC to run it. As do most freeware products. I'm sure Pete has no problem with the freeware designers using his module but I can understand him getting peeved that commercial enterprises are making money out of using a module he created for nothing and has supported for many years. Anyone who doesn't understand that point must be living in a dream world.I do feel that any commercial venture should pay Peter Dowson a licence for using his product. I don't feel I as a private person should have to pay to use a product that already uses FSUIPC if that developer has paid too.However I would do that and in fact have already made a donation to Peter when this first all came out. Just because I support the work he has done for the FS community and because he is an extremely nice and humble man.Also by the way one other thing that really gets up my nose is people who post messages on forums without using their real names, I was under the impression that that was not allowed on this forum, besides which it is extremely bad manners.RegardsTim WestnuttMAAM-SIM Teamhttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/16523.gif

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Hi Mike,I'm quite intrigued with your comment "MS was trying to monopolize on all the add-on products currently available to us through both payware and freeware sources".Won't you mind elaborate further?

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You cant be king of the hill forever. Some talented programmer will recreate the functionality in FSUIPC. Trust me. I dont blame anyone for trying to make some money and if someone puts something out for free that does what the payware does then so be it.BobG

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>What have you ever contributed to the hobby? I admit, I>have neither the time, talent nor inclination to make scenery,>planes, etc. I appreciate the freeware, but know that I have>no entitlement to any of it, except out of the gracious>generosity of the creators.Well, he did say that he developed several planes back in the days where there were no clever GUI's or GMAX or whatever. I agree with his sentiments completely. The fact that everyone is jumping all over him is a response to precisely how "un"civil this hobby has become.Kenneth

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You pretty much had to be there. Sorry, can't remember all the details, but basically they wanted to know "how we felt" if MS did certain things with add-ons and groups etc. I don't recall all the specifics because it was some time back. We kept bringing up issues with FS and the moderator kept bringing up "what if MS did this" scenario. In short, compiling all that was discussed together into one, MS was trying to get input from us on how we would react if they slowly tried to monopolize the market of add-ons for FS.Many folks that were there that I've been able to talk to since all agree that's what it was all about. Even the questionaires we filled out lead to the same thing. Very little attention overall was paid to what FS needed etc. Some that were there may dispute this and may have saw it a completely different way. Having been in this type of scenario many times in business life, it was easy to spot what the real motives were.Mike BaumannFlight FX Design GroupStewart Global Aircraft

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Don't like it, don't buy it.Think you can do better for free, try it.That's just some advice that comes to my mind. Don't like it, ignore me.

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