J41 FMS Questions

[downscc 1,327]

Why not create a custom sidstar file for this location and put the deleted fixes and procedures in it? An excellent guide on how to create/edit these files is available from planepath.com.

[SubLogical 1]

Thanks to all ... I'm enjoying the education ...The Jeppesen chart I uploaded is dated 28 Jan 05 and had I known the NavCanada RNAV chart had the LatLongs on it for the fixes I could have downloaded it and then inserted the co-ords for each fix into the J41 FMS computer as a waypoint ... but that's a bit of work to say the least. Here's the rub ... I pay for the Jeppesen charts and the airacs and neither showed me the fixes. I think at least the airac should ... CYCG is a small airport but is commercially serviced by Air Canada's "Jazz".I confused myself and everyone else on the airac I'm using ... a check in the PMDG file shows I'm up to 09-10. Anyway my errors still don't change anything ... those RNAV fixes should be in the airac.BTW the GNS manuals are superb and very instructive. Many thanks again for that link. It looks like a lot of the utilities that system provides have been omitted in the J41 version and I hope that they can included in part of a future upgrade. Great plane . Great forum. Great supportThanksKen

[downscc 1,327]

Fixes on a Jan 05 approach chart might not be in a Oct 09 sidstar data, and probably not in any navdata file. Terminal fixes are generally unique to a terminal procedure file so look for the fixes in the CYCG.txt file in the sidstars folder if the approach is still published. If approach has been deleted then you have the option of recreating it as mentioned.

[SubLogical 1]

Fixes on a Jan 05 approach chart might not be in a Oct 09 sidstar data, and probably not in any navdata file. Terminal fixes are generally unique to a terminal procedure file so look for the fixes in the CYCG.txt file in the sidstars folder if the approach is still published. If approach has been deleted then you have the option of recreating it as mentioned.

Hi Dan,There is no reference to CYCG.txt in the SID/STARS file but the approach still existed ... see April 2006 chart submitted by vonmar in this thread. Also, I fly X-plane as well and their database is complete and current and free and it's in there.It may be that NavGraphics just aren't providing a complete database in this regard even though you pay for it. There is no doubt about the J41 FMC handling RNAVS ... here's an outdated one into KSEA.Ken

[vonmar 125]

Ken,I responded to your posts in the Navigraph forum.Navigraph does not provide procedures for all airports in the world.Navigraph provides data to update old obsolete data in FS9/FSX.Navigraph does not support obsolete procedures or data from previous months/years.I posted the screenshot of the old RNAV procedure here. That does not mean it is a valid procedure today.I went to the xplane forum and learned that the Navdata is a free service from Robin Peel.So, that is why it is available to you in Xplane.They are "custom made" procedures. That does not mean it is a valid procedure today.You must check your sources to verify if this airport is current (2009) procedures.

[Guest IFRinIMC]

vonmar,Judging by your response, you are a little sensitive about this issue..."Navigraph does not provide procedures for all airports in the world."Ok. How many DO you provide data for? There are nearly 25,000 ICAO identified landing facilities on the planet. Do you cover 50%? 20%? 10%?"Navigraph provides data to update old obsolete data in FS9/FSX."So, you only have changes from the last DAFIF and later. "Navigraph does not support obsolete procedures or data from previous months/years."Oh, so you only have data from 22Oct09 and later, wasn't the last cycle released that day? Yup, got the FADDS update right here...."I posted the screenshot of the old RNAV procedure here. That does not mean it is a valid procedure today."The problem with this is that the environment that MSFS users operate in uses data from the DAFIF and has not been updated since it was released (2006). So, for example, if I don't know to go and find new scenery for KSEA, your data will happily fly me right down into the 2006 field that is now 16R. There isn't any way for me to know that I need to update scenery. So your "up to the minute" cycles are essentially useless to the MSFS user."I went to the xplane forum and learned that the Navdata is a free service from Robin Peel.So, that is why it is available to you in Xplane. They are "custom made" procedures. That does not mean it is a valid procedure today."Actually, the monthly updates to the X-Plane scenery (which solves my "Which scenery needs updating?" problem) is provided by the community of X-Plane users. Current charts are used to maintain currently valid procedures and navaids. Essentially, Robin and the community are doing what you are except that it is freely available. Oh, and they include the small stuff, too, like RNAV fixes into Castlegar."You must check your sources to verify if this airport is current (2009) procedures."But we know that MSFS is stuck in 2006. The only thing your data does is confuse the user operating in that environment.Seems like the existing MSFS database is the best thing for MSFS users. It is certainly more complete and accurate for the environment.

[Paul_Smith 92]

vonmar,Judging by your response, you are a little sensitive about this issue..."Navigraph does not provide procedures for all airports in the world."Ok. How many DO you provide data for? There are nearly 25,000 ICAO identified landing facilities on the planet. Do you cover 50%? 20%? 10%?"Navigraph provides data to update old obsolete data in FS9/FSX."So, you only have changes from the last DAFIF and later. "Navigraph does not support obsolete procedures or data from previous months/years."Oh, so you only have data from 22Oct09 and later, wasn't the last cycle released that day? Yup, got the FADDS update right here...."I posted the screenshot of the old RNAV procedure here. That does not mean it is a valid procedure today."The problem with this is that the environment that MSFS users operate in uses data from the DAFIF and has not been updated since it was released (2006). So, for example, if I don't know to go and find new scenery for KSEA, your data will happily fly me right down into the 2006 field that is now 16R. There isn't any way for me to know that I need to update scenery. So your "up to the minute" cycles are essentially useless to the MSFS user."I went to the xplane forum and learned that the Navdata is a free service from Robin Peel.So, that is why it is available to you in Xplane. They are "custom made" procedures. That does not mean it is a valid procedure today."Actually, the monthly updates to the X-Plane scenery (which solves my "Which scenery needs updating?" problem) is provided by the community of X-Plane users. Current charts are used to maintain currently valid procedures and navaids. Essentially, Robin and the community are doing what you are except that it is freely available. Oh, and they include the small stuff, too, like RNAV fixes into Castlegar."You must check your sources to verify if this airport is current (2009) procedures."But we know that MSFS is stuck in 2006. The only thing your data does is confuse the user operating in that environment.Seems like the existing MSFS database is the best thing for MSFS users. It is certainly more complete and accurate for the environment.

IFRinIMC - If you have a problem with Navigraph, please take it to the Navigraph forum, this is the PMDG forum. To create a new user ID (and not sign it) just to attack someone who provides a service that most of as appreciate (with our wallets, not just words) is not just childish and petty, but it is also bad for the rest of us because it leaves vonmar wondering why the f*ck he should bother trying to help any of us out in the future.

[Guest IFRinIMC]

IFRinIMC - If you have a problem with Navigraph, please take it to the Navigraph forum, this is the PMDG forum. To create a new user ID (and not sign it) just to attack someone who provides a service that most of as appreciate (with our wallets, not just words) is not just childish and petty, but it is also bad for the rest of us because it leaves vonmar wondering why the f*ck he should bother trying to help any of us out in the future.

Paul,You are right, this is an issue for Navigraph and I will take it to that forum. However, the larger issue - that of a frozen (dead) piece of software (MSFS) becoming less and less interesting to anyone in the third-party add-on segment of the market. PMDG being one of them. The problem affects everyone.Like it or not, the MSFS add-on marketplace is already starting to contract. It is unlikely that any new companies will show up offering new add-ons and the guys who are in it now have to be looking around wondering how they are going to survive. The fact is that there are very few new MSFS customers and they will be fewer and fewer as stocks of FSX sell out. It is going to look like a collector's market soon. The activity will be on Ebay and in the Torrents. There isn't much incentive to work on new products for this kind of market.If looking at the situation that MSFS users are in is "just childish and petty" then sticking your head in the sand an wishing it wasn't happening is something worse (I'll let you come up with what that might be). Where are you going to go when MSFS is like SubLOGIC's "ATP"?As for pissing off vonmar, Navigraph is in the business of converting existing real-world data into a dozen or more data sets that can be read by the dozens of add-ons available. He isn't doing you or anyone else a favor - you are paying for the service. Maybe you should consider paying him a one-time "don't let someone on a forum ###### you off, please" fee.

[trisager 2]

OK, we now know you like X-Plane and dislike MFSF. Now go bother someone else.Tom Risager

[Paul_Smith 92]

... However, the larger issue - [yawn] becoming less and less interesting to [snooze] everyone....

And you think that a thread on the PMDG forum discussing RNAV fixes in the context of a JS41 FMS is the ideal place to address your 'issues'? Goodbye.

[SubLogical 1]

Now if the shelling has stopped and it's safe to crawl out from my foxhole I'd like to finish my thread. I'm flying around the Northern Hemisphere in the JS41 and avoiding the large airports as part of the trek. This is a voyage of discovery, fun and a break from the Virtual airline I also fly regular routes for. I've long ago left behind the Castlegar airport which prompted my concern over the lack of an RNAV in the JS41 FMC/Navigraph that exists in the FSX database. I was naive to ask ... I know better now!The farther I travel on my journey, the more I have to hand fly into the smaller airports because the STARS are not in the Navigraph database even though I see them in the FSX database, but I like using the FMC in the JS41 so I take what I can get. I also fly in the X-plane environment and if that makes me some kind of apostate as suggested by the obnoxious repsonses of a couple of seasoned forum members (judging by the number of posts they claim credit for) then I know where I'm not welcome. And for the last 25 years I thought that this was supposed to be a fun hobby! Some of the respondents to this thread have condemnded me for raising this issue in the JS41 forum and I think I was properly dressed down by either a Navigraph representative or an apologist for them. By the way I am a paying member of Navigraph ... not a free loader and as such a customer ... I don't know how you make your living, but to me a customer usually deserves some respect or he may become someone else's customer.But let's get back to why I raised this "shortcoming" (maybe only in my mind) in the JS41 forum ... contrary to the best advice of some ... to butt out ... and that is simply this ... it wasn't Navigraph's decision to deny users of the JS41 access to the FSX database ... that had to be a decision of PMDG. And I hasten to add that they must have had good reason for doing so or I can't for the life of me understand why it was done.While we fly in the FSX environment, I can't understand why we don't stick to it ... unless of course Navigraph and any other supplier can duplicate and/or improve on it.I rest my case and I'm sorry I posted in this forum.Thanks again to those who helped me and regrets to those who found me troublesome.Regards to all,Ken Park :(

[aentwis 61]

Ken...I do believe that most of the less courteous posts were aimed at IFRinIMC and not at you...Case of crossed wires maybe. I don't believe Tom Risager aimed his X-Plane post at you...The simple matter is that PMDG's releases use the Navigraph database, not the FS database. You may import an FSX flightplan into the JS41 FMS though (not exactly sure how, as I have never done it, sorry...)With the thousands upon thousands of waypoints, it is always going to be the case that some procedure or airport is not fully up to scratch. To expect this for the fee we pay for Navigraph would be a little over the top I believe, given the price charged for real world nav data updates... I mean, we get an airac cycle update that will function in quite a range of different databases (unfortunately not the MSFS database, possibly because it is not located in one place?) for 20 credits... a max of

[trisager 2]

I do believe that most of the less courteous posts were aimed at IFRinIMC and not at you...Case of crossed wires maybe. I don't believe Tom Risager aimed his X-Plane post at you...

Apologies, Ken, my comment was indeed for IFRinIMC (whatever his real name might be). I should have made that clear - or even better, kept quiet. He (or it) just ticked me off, that's all.

[trisager 2]

While we fly in the FSX environment, I can't understand why we don't stick to it ... unless of course Navigraph and any other supplier can duplicate and/or improve on it.

One reason not to stick to the default FSX environment is that it is actually hard to find charts that correspond to the (old) FSX database. Jeppesen used to have a product called Simcharts that did just that, but it has been discontinued.On the other hand, there are plenty of free sources where current charts can be downloaded. Using these charts with an up-to-date airac (e.g. from Navigraph) means that you will have a good correspondence between navdata and charts. There are still problems, of course - Navigraph does not have everything, and things like runways and ILS frequencies that change (although infrequently) in the real world slowly go out of sync with FSX. One way of dealing with that is to check the FS map for the approach you want to fly. Another approach is to edit the airports yourself (e.g. with Airport Design Editor), or buy updated addon airports.Another reason to update your navdata is if you fly online - you will generally be expected to fly according to current procedures, SIDs particularly and STARS or RNAV transitions to a lesser extent (you can always just ask for vectors).

[downscc 1,327]

The farther I travel on my journey, the more I have to hand fly into the smaller airports because the STARS are not in the Navigraph database even though I see them in the FSX database, but I like using the FMC in the JS41 so I take what I can get

If the small airports you are looking for have current published approaches, I believe Navigraph will include them. If not, then it is by error. STARS are not published for most airports, but the airports are in the Navigraph data.If the small airports do not have current published approaches, but did at one time in history; thence they are in FSX but not current real data but you can still fly to lat/lon waypoints and use the navaids in FSX.In any event, I recommend you add sidstar files to your list of things to learn about because for a small airport with maybe one beacon used for NDB approaches, it is really easy to create the files. Really easy, and there's plenty of us lurking here that can help you through the learning curve.