I have been flying the new free Tiger Moth this week and I would like for the cockpit view to be a little more downward and a bit further back so I can see the altimeter without playing around with the hat switch. I know various views are captured somehow and defined in the aircraft.cfg file. I'm hoping we can take one more step after defining the view and assign it to an unused or underused keyboard command.Everyone reading this knows more about this than me, but no one is more eager to get it going. So, whatta you say. I'm kinda like a sponge, I can soak it up if someone will just put me in the puddle.How do I get started? Thanks.Ray M.

Hi Raymar - I have just been going through this exercise for some of my aircraft. See thread:http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=273073BTW this all assumes you are on FSX. I'm not that familiar with FS9 anymore.I don't know the Tiger, but the first thing to do is look in its aircraft.cfg file (I'm assuming you know how to find that) and see it it has a CameraDefinition for the Virtual Cockpit. I am guessing it doesn't. Most aircraft seem to pick up the Virtual Cockpit view from C:\Documents and Settings\yourname\Application Data\Microsoft\FSX\Cameras.cfg. (You can change that, but it will affect all aircraft using it, and may cause other problems.) But if your aircraft has its own VC camera definition, skip the next paragraph. You need to add an extra camera view to the aircraft. If you look at the above thread, you will find a sample camera definition kindly supplied by n4gfix. If you copy that as is into the aircraft.cfg for the Tiger it will give you a new view called Left Seat accessible from the Views/Cockpit menu. The only thing to watch is that you need to makes sure the CameraDefinition number is different from any other camera definition in the aircraft.cfg. If there are no other camera definitions, then just copy the new definition into the [GENERAL] section.The key values to changing the view in terms of camera view eyepoint position and direction are:InitialXyz = 0,0,0 Changes the initial eyepoint (forward/back, left/right, up/down - not sure of the order)InitialPbh = 0,0,0 Changes the direction of view (Pitch/Bank/Yaw)Note: these may not be present in an existing definition, but can be added. I can't recall the sequence of the values, but you can find them by a little experimentation. In my case I left the InitialXyz values at zero and set the InitialPbh to something like 6,0,0 in order to look down. You can change the InitialXyz values to move further back, but I found that didn't work too well (you tend to find yourself behind the seat !) What I did was change the InitialZoom value in the camera definition to a wider angle, 0.3 on most of my aircraft. Note that unless the aircraft has its own VC camera definition in aircraft.cfg, it will always load with the VC view as defined in cameras.cfg. You need to access the new view via the Views menu. (There may be a way of assigning a shortcut to it, but I couldn't find one.) If you really want the new view to be the default, the only way I found of doing it was to remove the default VC camera definition from Cameras.cfg and copy it, suitably customised) into each of the aircraft that I fly. This works, but note also the problems with 2D panels that this caused on my system.Hope this helps.

Hi Raymar - I have just been going through this exercise for some of my aircraft. See thread:http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=273073BTW this all assumes you are on FSX. I'm not that familiar with FS9 anymore.I don't know the Tiger, but the first thing to do is look in its aircraft.cfg file (I'm assuming you know how to find that) and see it it has a CameraDefinition for the Virtual Cockpit. I am guessing it doesn't. Most aircraft seem to pick up the Virtual Cockpit view from C:\Documents and Settings\yourname\Application Data\Microsoft\FSX\Cameras.cfg. (You can change that, but it will affect all aircraft using it, and may cause other problems.) But if your aircraft has its own VC camera definition, skip the next paragraph. You need to add an extra camera view to the aircraft. If you look at the above thread, you will find a sample camera definition kindly supplied by n4gfix. If you copy that as is into the aircraft.cfg for the Tiger it will give you a new view called Left Seat accessible from the Views/Cockpit menu. The only thing to watch is that you need to makes sure the CameraDefinition number is different from any other camera definition in the aircraft.cfg. If there are no other camera definitions, then just copy the new definition into the [GENERAL] section.The key values to changing the view in terms of camera view eyepoint position and direction are:InitialXyz = 0,0,0 Changes the initial eyepoint (forward/back, left/right, up/down - not sure of the order)InitialPbh = 0,0,0 Changes the direction of view (Pitch/Bank/Yaw)Note: these may not be present in an existing definition, but can be added. I can't recall the sequence of the values, but you can find them by a little experimentation. In my case I left the InitialXyz values at zero and set the InitialPbh to something like 6,0,0 in order to look down. You can change the InitialXyz values to move further back, but I found that didn't work too well (you tend to find yourself behind the seat !) What I did was change the InitialZoom value in the camera definition to a wider angle, 0.3 on most of my aircraft. Note that unless the aircraft has its own VC camera definition in aircraft.cfg, it will always load with the VC view as defined in cameras.cfg. You need to access the new view via the Views menu. (There may be a way of assigning a shortcut to it, but I couldn't find one.) If you really want the new view to be the default, the only way I found of doing it was to remove the default VC camera definition from Cameras.cfg and copy it, suitably customised) into each of the aircraft that I fly. This works, but note also the problems with 2D panels that this caused on my system.Hope this helps.

Thanks for the comprehensive response. I just got up and scanned your post. After breakfast I will dig into it. Yes, the new Tiger Moth is FSX only and in fact SP2/Acceleration. Very nice, new up to date freeware by Anthony Lynch. Links are at most sites and all over AU. I am also FSX/Acceleration only. I missed all the fun of being a first responsder with 95, 98, 02, 04, etc.Also, the Tiger is VC only, seems to be the trend nowdays. Thanks again for your quick, helpful response.RayM

You're welcome - and I hope it does turn out to be helpful ! There are many on here far more experienced than I am who may be able to dot the i's and cross the t's and offer supplementary advice. One thing I should mention is that I run FSX SP2 (not Acceleration). I don't believe that invalidates what I have said above, but be aware in case you see different results.

You're welcome - and I hope it does turn out to be helpful ! There are many on here far more experienced than I am who may be able to dot the i's and cross the t's and offer supplementary advice. One thing I should mention is that I run FSX SP2 (not Acceleration). I don't believe that invalidates what I have said above, but be aware in case you see different results.

This one is FSX/SP2 and VC only. I seem to remember a couple of pages written on the limitations of 'FSx Views" by RealAir. I think it came with the Duke package. I am going to dig that out this evening for bedtime reading.I went thru the referenced post and learned a lot about what not to do, thanks for your ground work. I have spent the last two hours playing around with camera views, aircraft.cfg and camera.cfg. I also have concluded that the "standard" cockpit view is reserved for 2d views and in the VC you can do pretty much anything, but the GUID must be unique.I am still fuzzy when I am am switching views or cycling views with the W, S, and A keys. But, it is getting a little clearer, more like chicken soup than mud.I am also of the opinion that Fr.Bill! is only correct about 110% of the time. I grabbed his newest "Left Seat" view and it works great in the Tiger Moth for me. I now am on the search for how to change the base eyepoint in VC. This is where the CTRL+Spacebar takes you. I need to back up and tilt downward. Fun Stuff. I'm sure the grass is going to grow way too fast this summer, but, I just went outside and the graphics are great. Bye for now.RayM

The "default VC view" position is primarily controlled by the [eyepoint] entry in the aircraft.cfg file.All other "VC Camera views" obtain their InitialXyz and InitialPbh data from either the ones in the default cameras.cfg file in the User's AppData folder structure, or from (re)defined entries in the aircraft.cfg file.

I am trying to change the view (height) in the VC of the Carenado C185F (it's too low by default). However, it seems the default VC view is taken from the general cameras.cfg and not the aircraft.cfg (I looked at the Guid in a saved flight and that Guid is only found in the general cameras.cfg). Now if I change the general cameras.cfg, that view will change for all planes that use that cfg. So I'd like to add it to the aircraft.cfg of the C185F. But there are already camera's in there... If I add one, I suppose it won't be the default first one...How can I get this done...?EDIT:O, I think this already answered my question:

If you really want the new view to be the default, the only way I found of doing it was to remove the default VC camera definition from Cameras.cfg and copy it, suitably customised) into each of the aircraft that I fly. This works, but note also the problems with 2D panels that this caused on my system.

But how does the plane know this should be the default view...? There is already a CameraDefinition.001: should I number that 002 and the rest accordingly...?EDIT 2:Never mind! Instead of trying to make a default view, I added a view to the aircraft.cfg and now I only have to press A once after loading the aircraft to get my higher 'default' view! :)

You've gone down much the same route as I did. From what I can tell, the default VC camera definition which an aircraft will use is hard-coded somewhere (in the Model file ?) based, as far as I can tell, on the GUID. (The CameraDefinition number has no significance apart from the fact that it must be different for different camera definitions within a single aircraft.cfg) Most aircraft use the VC definition in cameras.cfg. The only way that I found to change that was to copy that definition with the same GUID into each aircraft I wanted to fly and then modify it. You have to remove the original definition from cameras.cfg too, because FSX will not work with more than one camera definition with the same GUID active. (It doesn't seem to mind camera defintions with the same GUID in multiple aircraft.)This was the only way I could find to change the VC view used at flight load, and which I could snap back to at any time via the "Look Forward (VC)" command, which I have mapped to a button on my yoke. If I merely added a new view to an aircraft I couldn't find a way of snapping back to it from other views (or different [positions in the same view) with a single keystroke. Did you solve that problem ?

You've gone down much the same route as I did. From what I can tell, the default VC camera definition which an aircraft will use is hard-coded somewhere (in the Model file ?) based, as far as I can tell, on the GUID. (The CameraDefinition number has no significance apart from the fact that it must be different for different camera definitions within a single aircraft.cfg) Most aircraft use the VC definition in cameras.cfg. The only way that I found to change that was to copy that definition with the same GUID into each aircraft I wanted to fly and then modify it. You have to remove the original definition from cameras.cfg too, because FSX will not work with more than one camera definition with the same GUID active. (It doesn't seem to mind camera defintions with the same GUID in multiple aircraft.)This was the only way I could find to change the VC view used at flight load, and which I could snap back to at any time via the "Look Forward (VC)" command, which I have mapped to a button on my yoke. If I merely added a new view to an aircraft I couldn't find a way of snapping back to it from other views (or different [positions in the same view) with a single keystroke. Did you solve that problem ?

I have been away from my computer all day. This will have to wait a little while. I am going to make some notes and after the Saints win the superbowl tomorrow, I will get back on it. Thanks DickB.Thanks Fr.Bill!Ray.

There are NO camera views or positions defined in any model (.mdl) file. Period.The default VC eyepoint is initialized/defined in the aircraft.cfg file in the [eyepoint] entry. It is an x,y,z offset from the model's origin point of 0,0,0. That is all...Note that in the default Camera.CFG file, the entry for

[CameraDefinition.002]Title = Virtual Cockpit...

has no InitialXyz= entry... The reason being that this position is defined in the aircraft.cfg's [eyepoint] entry! :(

There are NO camera views or positions defined in any model (.mdl) file. Period.The default VC eyepoint is initialized/defined in the aircraft.cfg file in the [eyepoint] entry. It is an x,y,z offset from the model's origin point of 0,0,0. That is all...Note that in the default Camera.CFG file, the entry for

[CameraDefinition.002]Title = Virtual Cockpit...

has no InitialXyz= entry... The reason being that this position is defined in the aircraft.cfg's [eyepoint] entry! :(

The mdl file was a pure guess ! It doesn't surprise me that there is no definition/link there. But I'm still puzzled.I can understand the eyepoint is defined in the aircraft.cfg. But (I think ?) that is just the position of the eye - not the direction/angle it is looking. If you do nothing else, the view will be straight ahead from that position, as indeed it is in the default. To look down, for example, from the eyepoint, you need to change the InitialPbh value in a camera definition. And indeed, adding a non-zero InitialPbh value to the default VC view in Camera.cfg will change the angle of the default VC view for all aircraft.As discussed, the same can be done by adding a camera definition to aircraft.cfg. But the VC view that loads initially will always be that defined in the Virtual Cockpit camera definition in Camera.cfg. Something is telling FSX to use the specific default VC camera definition. From my testing the key has to be the GUID. If you change the GUID in the default VC camera definition in Camera.cfg (and nothing else), then FSX does not recognise it as default - all aircraft will load with the 2D cockpit as default, and the VC will only be accessible via the Views menu . It doesn't have to be in Camera.cfg either - if you move (not copy) the default VC definition to an individual aircraft.cfg (with the original GUID), it loads fine as the default VC view for that a/c .So my question is - is this GUID specified as the VC default somewhere in the aircraft model/definition, or is it globally defined within FSX ? It sounds like it may be the latter.I hope all that makes sense !

Yes, the default VC GUID is global, in the sense that it is apparently hard-coded into the sim engine......and you are correct, the [eyepoint] entry is strictly x,y,z position. There's evidently no way to alter the p,b,h except globally... :( So, long story short, I think we're simply SOL on this, AFAIK. :(

Just as long as I wasn't missing anything. My solution (moving the default VC definition to the aircraft.cfg of all the aircraft that I fly) works well enough for me. But it would be a pain for anyone with an extensive hangar.