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Guest jabberthecat

FS2004 Clouds - what not to expect....

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One area where the clouds come up short is in "substance". From a distance, they look outstanding. But flying through them is another matter. This was one feature I expected in FS2004, and was sad to see wasn't included. What do I mean? Fly through any cloud, and pan your view to either side. You won't see the vis changing from opaque to solid as you would in a typical cloud. Instead, you see yourself "slicing" through the layers that define the cloud.This is somewhat true in the forward view as well. I'm sorry to see this feature lacking in FS2004....flying through clouds is as important to the realism factor, as looking at them from afar. I mentioned this during the time we were allowed to comment on the gold release, but I feel it fair to mention again. There's been several posts in the past two days kind of hinting that testers were asleep at the wheel. I've tried to paint an honest portrait of FS2004. Having seen it, I would have certainly purchased it. But if I wasn't part of the project and had simply looked for feedback in the forums, I might have been scared away given my system specs. FS2004 is still a major enhancement to the series, and people who love the hobby should purchase it with that thought in mind. But it isn't the holy grail....there's still work to be done to get the weather to the point that many of us envisioned FS2004's new engine would be.Given the way clouds are modelled in FS2004, that may require some type of collision detection logic that "adjusts" the visibility dynamically as you enter and exit them.

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HI John, "What do I mean? Fly through any cloud, and pan your view to either side. You won't see the vis changing from opaque to solid as you would in a typical cloud. Instead, you see yourself "slicing" through the layers that define the cloud.`What's did you means by You won't see the vis changing from opaque to solid ?It will depend on the clouds thicknees, see this video http://fsw.simflight.com/fs2k4/fcloud2.wmv For sure there will be improvement for future version, like particle inside, but the weather engine take already frame rate hit, I will not complains one sec. There is deliberate things.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

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Happens with some pretty thick clouds Chris.... Point is, you should be able to set up coverage as low as 1/8ths, and cloud layers of any thickness, and know when you're flying through a cloud when viewed from all angles. The forward view fudges the effect better than the side views--but the side views definitely have issues. I'll often pan my view left and right to check for traffic when setting up my turns from downwind to base, and from base to final. It's be nice if somehow the clouds responded the way you'd expect them to.So the video is somewhat misleading in the context of the thought I wanted the thread to convey....-John

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MS needs to hire Oleg Maddox of IL-2 fame and have him use his team to design the clouds.IL-2 = big fluffy clouds with pratically NO performance hit.

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Don't tease me with things we will never have... :( The words, 'If Only' come to mind. Oh well, when can we start the FS2006 request list?[strong]Adam Nardone[/strong] Web & Graphic Design www.ion-media.net [/p]

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Hi, ""IL-2 = big fluffy clouds with pratically NO performance hit.""Actually IL2 have all the same few cumulus which are repetitive cotton balls,no far clouds, which will be unrealistic for a Cv flight, this is why you have good frame rate.Fs2004 compare to the same clouds thinkeess and the same amount the performance is the same.And I will able to change all clouds formation in your screen for fs2004 also for the amount and the graduation when you through the clouds.I will do it one normal and another one frame rare freindly, like IL2 sturmovic which have lees clouds in your screen.Adam Nardone you may wait little because you will see tons of comment from default fs2004 stuff which can be change.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

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Chris, you never cease to impress me. So what exactly are your plans for FS2004?[strong]Adam Nardone[/strong] Web & Graphic Design www.ion-media.net [/p]

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Hi Adam Nardone, Clouds Weather environment redone from scratch, much more detailed clouds type, fs sky world 2004 easier than the previous one, with others things. Active sky 2.0 compatible with fs sky world 2004ThanksChris WillisFSW GROUP

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Chris,Sounds superb! Really looking forward to it already. If your last package was anything to go by, and baring in mind there is already scope for improvement with the new weather, I'm sure the next release will be nothing short of a masterpiece! Oh and please, call me Adam! :)[strong]Adam Nardone[/strong] Web & Graphic Design www.ion-media.net [/p]

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Chris -I "replaced" the default FS2K2 clouds with your FSW clouds as soon asthey were available. I truly enjoy your artistic - "real life" styleof clouds in FS2K2!Also - I did not use your "frame rate friendly" clouds since the "full" feature ones were quite acceptable for me.My question, the FSW version you're developing for FS2004, how much of a FPS boost will we see (if any) from the default FS2004 clouds.As an example, today, with the default FS2004 clouds, if say I'm getting an average FPS of 15, with your "standard" clouds, would I still get 15 FPS (lower or higher)? With your frame rate friendly clouds, would my FPS increase by 1, 2, 3 FPS or more?JerryG

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Like i said in an earlier post, nothing so far imho beat Fly clouds..I do not use Fly because i don`t really like it or i had a hard time getting use to it but for the clouds woot they did a great job..I was flying today in one aircraft with 2 engines and while i was looking at the clouds on my left i couldn`t see the clouds through the propeller so the clouds look like it`s cut and re-appear while flying through. Don`t know if you understand what i mean but this bug me a little i`ll go play in the setting`s a bit to see if this change anything..Beside that the FS is perfectly fluid on my system hehe for what i saw so far..Sorry for my english but i`m french cdn :-)AMD 2.0 Mgz 1 gig DDR RamGeForce 4 TI4200 with 128 megs of ram

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Hi, "I was flying today in one aircraft with 2 engines and while i was looking at the clouds on my left i couldn`t see the clouds through the propeller so the clouds look like it`s cut and re-appear while flying through"Fly do not have this either, it`s called particle inside the clouds, I have tried fly clouds, nothing to impress in their implementation fly through , specialy the basic implementation of the weather engine, and very limited things, not close to fs2004 at all.Your visibibility reduce on some clouds type and how did you fly through them.Like I said, this can be Improved on the visual, flying trough and the performanceThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

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I wasn`t flying through the clouds, i was looking at it from above let`s say around 500 to 1000 feet, but where the propeler is the cloud is cut so i was looking at the cloud but just the cloud behind the properler and in front i couldn`t see it untill..But i`ll go back, and see my setting`s may be this could be fix..New toys need to learn the curve again :-)

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I`ll have to take my word back on this topic hehe..I did 2 flights tonight and the clouds were just terrific hehe..This sim meet my requirement hehe no sluttering this is the main complaint i had with FS2000 ( i got 2002 but didn`t use it much at the time so i won`t comment ) I'm always at 20 FPS and +++++ most of the time, i lock the FPS at 40, i max most of the thing i want and it`s still fluid...Great experience hehe..I was flying the Learjet tonight..Tomorrow i`ll try the caravan 310 from Dreamfleet while waiting to get there next 737 generation :-)WinXP 2.0 Ghz 1 Gig DDR RamGeForce 4 TI4200 with 128 megs of ram..

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Has to be one of those CPU/Video card/settings issues.Since I havn't noticed this, I just took the Lear & plowed through cumulous after cumulous. Only twice did I even get a hint of a thin wall. It actually get's quite opaque too! I would have noticed this, because I'm quite a fan of the original FLY clouds, and like these even better.From what I've witnessed in the last few days, is also a case of too many variations in computers, settings, and cards. http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/26571.jpgL.Adamson ---- Athlon 1900XP/Geforce3Ti500/512DDRram

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In my first flight I would point the plane at some fair weather cumulus (with the clouds set to detailed) and was disappointed to see that what was supposed to be an opaque mass was in fact a translucent, see-through affair. I thought perhaps that was just how the cumulus appeared up close, but tonight a shot was posted of the Bay Area in another forum, and it clearly showed a mass of see-through cumulus in the distance, above a band of darker, solid cumulus. Well, I'm a bit put out by that because, after all, cumulus should be opaque, and if it sometimes appears as see-through that's not very realistic. But it's since been mentioned that when the clouds are in the process of being rendered they will appear as translucent, and if you have a more powerful system they'll render faster and appear opaque. Well, that's encouraging; I have an Athlon 1700XP, with a GF3 Ti 200 using the 40.72 drivers, and 500 MB. So if I move up to a 3.0 Pentium I'll get significantly more realistic clouds? I wonder.

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L.Adamson, what do you have your view distance settings set to??? It seems this setting plays a part in resource management as well as the cloud distance detail settings.

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That shot isn't what I'm talking about.... I get that result as well...but try flying into the cloud.... :)-John

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>That shot isn't what I'm talking about.... I get that result>as well...but try flying into the cloud.... :)>John ------ I absoloutly love these clouds! I thought the original FLY/SKY clouds were good with it's excellent sky color, but this sim has even more options for clouds.With the Cessna, on my two year old Athlon 1900XP/Geforce3Ti500, there wasn't even a hint of built up 2D clouds, as you've described. I barely caught a hint of ot when in the Lear doing 350knots last evening. Last nights pic was actually the tail end & side view as I emerged from the clouds. The pics I have now, are from head on, and purely opaque. And BTW-- note the fps which was quite amazing............considering my CPU.No doubt, CPU/video cards/ and settings must make big differences in what we see.L.Adamson

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The only thing that's going to help you Paul in this situation is to lower your view distance (set it to 50nm). I have a 2.6gig 800FSB, ATI Radeon9700 video card, 1gig SDRAM and I'm still haveing problems with the clouds. I don't know if a new computer will be an end all solution for framerates and clouds that can be displayed at one time...

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This is my settings for the four pics in my previous reply. I've had the 3D clouds maxxed before, but began hitting default buttons when I developed a case of the "shimmers" the other day. Shimmers are now gone, and I'm kind of surprised to see my cloud settings at only 30% 3D. But they seem to look quite good, are opaque, and run at decent frame rates. So I leave the settings! :)http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/26737.jpL.Adamson ---- Athlon 1900XP/Geforce3Ti500/512DDRram

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I don't see any difference when looking forward like in your example shots, nor in looking to the side when I'm outside of a cloud. The opacity issues I run into are when I am inside the cloud, looking to the side, from the aircraft. I can see the aircraft slicing through the layers that define the cloud. Looking forward, I agree the effect is there. But it doesn't seem to follow when looking to the side. I can't pin this as a system issue, simply is the way clouds are rendered when we're "inside" them. I'll have to accept that they can't be viewed out the side during flight...Also, cloud coverage in your shots is a bit higher, which reduces the effect. Only way to really test this is to set coverage to 1/8ths, and head straight for a cumulus cloud with two windows open--one for the forward view and one for the side view, so you know you're in the cloud vs. viewing the outside portion of the cloud as the one shot seems to show.-John

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>I don't see any difference when looking forward like in your>example shots, nor in looking to the side when I'm outside of>a cloud. The opacity issues I run into are when I am inside>the cloud, looking to the side, from the aircraft. I can see>the aircraft slicing through the layers that define the cloud.> Looking forward, I agree the effect is there. But it doesn't>seem to follow when looking to the side. I can't pin this as>a system issue, simply is the way clouds are rendered when>we're "inside" them. I'll have to accept that they can't be>viewed out the side during flight...>It this forum wasn't so s---l---o---w, I'd pan in 22 degree angles and show you the shot's from front to side. No slicing at all, except for the two brief ones I got with the Lear at around 350 kias.When I entered several of those clouds --- straight on ---it was opaque from the front to the sides. Just as I would have hoped. L.Adamson

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... or just the 3D clouds.I absolutely loved FS2002 Skyworld clouds and would be perfectly happy with improved 2D clouds for FS2004.I am experimenting with the 3D clouds and find the frame rate OK, but the pan alittle jerky - not so if you using the less pretty2D clouds.- Myles Anthlon XP2000, GF4-ti4600, 512 PC2100 RAM

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