curious about the virtual heavy metal flyer

[AlexMichael 0]

Hi guys,I always wanted to know why people find virtual heavy metal airline flying fun? I mean, you start up the engine, go through checklists, takeoff, then reach cruise altitude. Now this is what concerns me. Who would want to stare at a cockpit for 3 hours while there is nothing to do? In my opinion, flying low and slow in a j3 cub over ORBX scenery would be much more enjoyable. I think people find it fun because it is challenging? I am becoming fond of virtual heavy metal flying myself, and hopefully one day i will understand why you guys think this is so much fun. Now to clear the air, i know nothing about airliners, i dont know what you have to do in cruise flight, etc. I really want this question answered. So i hope i understand whats the big deal about heavy metal flying, and how it is fun.CheersAlex

[MrSpeaker 122]

I like to do both, fseconomy for my prop stuff and my VA for the bigger birds, why limit yourself. One thing that I think most heavy metal guys will agree is the satisfaction of learning the systems and procedures of complex aircraft. Have you ever took a trip in the PMDG MD11, the manual is only about 1400 pages long :( Its all what you like, personally I would get bored if I just stuck to one type of flying.

[AlexMichael 0]

Thanks for the reply Ian,So what do you do in cruise flight? Was my theory correct of doing nothing but monitoring the systems?CheersAlex

[Chock 17,769]

Well, you missed out an important part of flying the heavies, before you get to 'start up the engine, go through checklists, takeoff, then reach cruise altitude', you learn about how to operate the thing, which is a lot more engaging and challenging than learning a Cessna or Piper or any other small aircraft for me, since I already know how to do that both in real life as well as in the virtual world of FS. That is not to say that it can't be fun to fly a small craft in FS, as it certainly can, but if I want to fly a small aircraft, I can get in my car, drive to the airfield and go and do it if I wish to, for real, but if I drive up the road to EGCC and ask if I 'can have a go in that 737 over there?', they'll tell me to clear off!So what I do outside of FS, is usually buy all the manuals for the real aeroplanes and learn about them and all that malarkey. For example, I'm currently reviewing the A300 made by Simcheck and sold through Aerosoft for Avsim. Now, it is easy to find manuals for a B737NG (I know this, because I had to buy a lot of them when I reviewed Ariane's NG for Avsim, to make sure I didn't write a load of old nonsense) And it is easy to find manuals for an A320 (I know that too because I was the one who actually did the print artwork for the standard operating procedures manuals for the real A320/A330 for several well known airlines), but you try finding a manual for an early model A300, now there is a challenge. So, that is another fun part of flying a heavy, that is, where do you find a manual for an airliner that was made in 1974? It wasn't easy I can assure you (not cheap either), but I got one.This is all just another part of the fun of finding out about stuff that interests me. So I often end up talking to men and women who fly the real things, to find out stuff about them, for example, I have a friend who is a designer for Airbus who I often quiz about matters, and he's told me a few stories that you won't find in manuals! Similarly, a number of real world B737 pilots got in touch with me when they knew I was reviewing the Ariane 737, and they were immensely helpful and generous with info, but one thing that happened when I was doing that will amuse you; I had one pilot point out that something was wrong on the PFD for the Ariane 737NG, and I had to politely tell them that it actually wasn't, it was just they hadn't flown that particular model with that particular software installed, which was current on the brand-new NG! Which shows you that learning all this stuff can actually make you very knowledgeable indeed.Some might simply 'get up to cruise altitude' in their virtual Boeing or Airbus, but if you do it all properly, there are the clearances, stepped climbs as fuel burns off, engine management based on company rules, considering passenger comfort, diversion and driftdown considerations, ETOPS rules, keeping to a timetable, following the rules of whether you can legally land because of the weather at the airport that might not have that category equipment, and a thousand other things of that nature which you can get involved in. Then there are Virtual Airlines, repaints, all sorts of peripheral stuff like that.So when I fly an airliner for Atlantic Bridge, which is my air freight company in Air Hauler, I do it with proper flight procedures, proper routes, the correct loading, fueling etc, etc, and I treat it as though it is a real company that I am flying for, which granted, might be boring for some, but I quite like all that stuff. I don't do that all the time, but when I want to, it is entertaining. I've even got a website for my freight company, I make advertising for it, paint up my aircraft, customise their panels and instrument fits and all kinds of stuff like that. Not everyone's cup of tea to do that sort of thing, but the variety of things one can do in flight sims is what makes it interesting, and that certainly includes flying heavies.Al

[AlexMichael 0]

Thanks Al for the amazing reply. I guess doing proper flight procedures in the simulator can be very enjoyable, and a rewarding experience. BTW for long flights in airlines i think i will just use the second monitor to cruise around the web. Is that what you do Al? Also do you recommend angle of attacks airliner training products?CheersAlex

[cmpbellsjc 2,963]

I would have to agree with Alan also on his points.I fly airliners 90% of the time in FSX and choppers or light G/A the other 10% of the time. The reason being is that I am also a low time private pilot and I can go to the airport, rent a Cessna and go fly it where ever my wallet and I want. However what I can do is go to KMIA, jump in an American Airlines 767 and fly it to St. Maarten or Brasil. I guess its mainly the fact that FSX or FS9 lets you fly what every you want in what ever plane you want that you cant or are not qualified to do in the real world.Also I get a sense of accomplishment that I have learned to fly a complex bird like the LDS 767, start it from a cold and dark stage, program the route the the real world airline would use, take of and arrive at the destination safely. Granted I find it boring on long flights of 3 hours or more, so what I usually find myself doing is browsing the internet or something like that while in cruise, much like what the Northwest pilots were doing when they missed Chicago by 150 miles, lol. In real life I find g/a flights of that time frame boring as well, especially when cruising over plain areas.I also find it interesting to duplicate real world airline flights that I have been a passenger on because I think it is interesting to see what the pilots saw on the flight I was a passenger on. I flew from KMIA to Rio de Janeiro (SBGL) a few months ago and as soon I got home I had to duplicate the flight using the same historical weather download from ASA and the route that my flight flew after I snagged it from Flightaware. The flight was about 8.5 hours, so what I did was start the flight in the morning before work and flew the plane to cruise. Once I was at altitude, I put the autopilot on and worked my job. I work at home so I was able to check on it about every 30 minutes, but once I was about an hour from the destination I was "in the cockpit" for the rest of the flight. It was really neat flying the approach in the same weather and time of day that the pilots in my flight did. I also checked the wing views a few times and was surprised to see how accurate the mesh and landscape was as I was nearing the airport. Even more to my surprise was that when I landed a lot of the same a/c were parked at the airport since I use Ultimate Traffic 2 and some were even at the same gate as they were when I arrived in real life.In the end I guess it mostly since we can do things that we dont do in real life. I have flown so many real world routes in airliners that sometimes I almost feel as though I have actually been to some of the places I have flown in the sim, just from doing it so often I guess.Other times I will just jump in the LDS 767 or one of my other airliners and spend an hour flying approaches. In real life and in the sim I have always foung the most exciting part of the flight the approach and landing, so sometimes I just spend time doing that at a busy airport like LAX.

[Chock 17,769]

Yup, I occasionally hand over the aircraft to the co-pilot that MCE has and let 'him/her' fly it, then whilst in windowed mode I can look on forums and do other stuff too, so if there is a 'boring bit', that is what I will do, but to be honest, I tend not to do very long flights that often, typically it will be two hours flight time for jets, which is why I like the 737 especially.As far as training things go, I don't have that angle of attack stuff, but I have seen previews of it and it does look pretty good. However, what I really would recommend is Mike Ray's books, especially the 'Flying the 700 Series Flight Simulators' one, which is excellent and well worth having. also worth seeking out are some of the better flight deck DVDs you can find, such as the World Air routes ones and things like that. I have a few of those and they are often quite educational when it comes to learning stuff about how crews share the workload on the flight deck.A resource I often use, along with the real aircraft manuals, is this site: http://www.smartcockpit.com/ If you want to know how to fly lots of different airliners, it's well worth a look and has lots of pdf versions of manuals for airliners on it.Al

[LAdamson 240]

I guess I've just been around too many commercial pilots, who once again have a desire to fly GA for fun, or even learn the process of building one. Afterall, I share a hangar with one of these guys. :( He fly's and built his super size Pitt's aerobatic biplane with a large Russian radial. For his regular job, it's a commercial jet. In fact, quite a few friends and aquaintences have got into the process of kitbuilding, flying warbirds, etc. ................after their regular jobs of flying a 737 to the new Airbus 380.So in the meantime, knowing that a Garmin 1000 in a Cessna 172 has potentially more useful information than many commerical jetliners do.......I'm somewhat content to stick GA simming & how well it's beginning to duplicate real life. However, I have bought numerous simulated jet airliners just for the looks. I just haven't become proficient at FMC's because I never will in real life, and kind of figure it's a waste of time. I'd prefer to become more proficient with today's glass panels for GA.And speaking of the Garmin 1000/Cessna 172, it's hard to believe that many airliners still don't have uplinked satellite weather, large range GPS moving map screens, or airport diagrams with the aircrafts GPS position placed on it. They are getting there, but GA had it first.L.Adamson

[Chock 17,769]

Quite a few of the guys I fly gliders with are commercial pilots, you tell them a mile off when you are in the circuit, they're the ones on a Sunday morning flaring a Discus when it's still 80 feet off the deck because they forgot they're not in a 747 LOLAl

[Guest kidaamnesiac]

I like to mix it up flying GA to heavies and everything inbetween. Whatever size it is, I also enjoy (perhaps oddly) planning the flight. I'm like the other poster who would make a website of his virtual cargo airline etc.But I am usually quite pressed for time balancing work and family life with a toddler and another on the way so sitting in the cockpit for 3 hours on autopilot doesn't do it for me. One of the benefits with flight sim is we can do whatever length we want - one of my favourite things to do is Prestwick to Heathrow (and return) or Heathrow to Brussels in the PMDG 747. Its a short hop but I like to fly the SIDs and STARs by hand, and usually that means hardly any time with the AP on at all.I also like flying the World-Flight routes which usually are about 2 hours long. I hope to get into VATSIM soon where even long haul flights can be interesting.As for Angle of Attack the 747 DVD is excellent. Right now they have a free GA series called Aviator 90 so you can see what sort of thing they do. Check it out - personally I think they are great! www.flyaoamedia.comAndrew (not affiliated with AoA!!)

[out 769]

they're the ones on a Sunday morning flaring a Discus when it's still 80 feet off the deck because they forgot they're not in a 747

That is absolutely brilliant! :( Thanks Al, you've just made my day.

[Guest]

Nowadays I usually fly GA above PNW. I used to fly airliners, but I had always had the biggest fun reading the manuals and getting to know the systems. As soon as I knew how it all (sort of) worked, I'd usually look for another plane or start flying GA again. When actually flying the airliners (while learning the systems), I always kept the flights short so cruise wouldn't take longer than a few minutes. If possible I did use real life flightplans (for instance the MD-11 has real life FedEx flights which are very short). I never ever did a flight in which I had to cruise for longer than 15 minutes or so... Way too boring and having it fly in the background (or when I was away) just isn't my thing. I want to fly real time or not at all, really... I see no sense in doing a 4 hour flight while I am shopping in real life. My current GA flights are also quite short (from 15 minutes to a maximum of 45 minutes). Any longer and I get bored real quickly. A lot of my GA flights take less time than preparing the MD-11 for a flight did (without the actual flying)...!Right now I lost interest in complicated airliners: I rather take off in a minute and look outside the VC and see PNW. :(

[out 769]

I never ever did a flight in which I had to cruise for longer than 15 minutes or so... Way too boring

VATSIM evenings is what you need, my friend! :(

[MrSpeaker 122]

Thanks for the reply Ian,So what do you do in cruise flight? Was my theory correct of doing nothing but monitoring the systems?CheersAlex

Its called having a man room Alex :( In this room I have several PC's, a playstation 3, a 52inch T.V and even a treadmill, which I have to admit does not get used very often. So there's lots to keep me busy. But I normally don't fly long haul flights, I try to keep it under 3 hours, and when I get tired of it I hop in my Super Cub and enjoy the low and slow.

[Pete Dowson 558]

I mean, you start up the engine, go through checklists

Actually, in my cockpit and with ATC from RC and assistance with the checklists from IYP, there's quite a lot to do BEFORE starting engines as well. ;-)

Who would want to stare at a cockpit for 3 hours while there is nothing to do?

Well a decent ATC will give you stuff to do, but I agree, cruise is pretty boring on the whole. This is why I fly a humble 737-700 and keep flights short. Hop all over Europe with max 90 minutes between each, usually much less -- 30 to 45 mins. So it ends up being lots of cockpit prep, taxiing and queuing to takeoff (I have lots of AI and busy airports), and takeoffs and landings.

In my opinion, flying low and slow in a j3 cub over ORBX scenery would be much more enjoyable.

I have a separate Piper Arrow III cockpit, using TrackIR and UK VFR Photo scenery for low level stuff. But even then it's really the takeoffs and landings that are fun. VFR cruising is merely cross-country navigation with maps and manual radio tuning. Fun but not at all demanding like airliner flying. I sometimes do it for relaxation between 737NG flights.

I think people find it fun because it is challenging?

Exactly. Especially to follow all the correct procedures. And I have books and books on all that, including a complete Boeing AOM (Aircraft Operating Manual) for the 737NG. Spiral bound in 14 volumes. ;-)RegardsPete