>Rather than HOPE what I may or may not be saying, just read me>literally. Don't read any of your fears or emotions "into">what I've written. If you read my post calmly, you will see>that I never said WE (authors) have no problem. I am an>author, and would love to get the sdk's also. What I said was>until we can convince MS that THEY have a problem, you can>poll till the cows come home, with nothing to show for it. I>honestly see no way MS would perceive our impatience as a>Microsoft problem.>>Bob BernsteinWow! I think you scare me Bob! Come ..Look into my eyes...:-lolI think the idea here is to convince MS that they do have a problem, so why not either support the effort or leave it be.

Hi Bob,"I honestly see no way MS would perceive our impatience as a Microsoft problem."I do hope you are wrong. If not, then I despair for the future for it will confirm what many outside our 'small' community have long suspected.I still hold to the belief that the success of this sim owes much to the support and enthusiasm given it by good folk such as ourselves. Realistically, it is unlikely that development of FS continues merely because the population at large rush out and buy it. They rush out and buy because it is known to be an exceptional product and that standard has been pretty much maintained with each successive release. However, I'm willing to bet that the interest of most purchasers is, in reality, ephemeral. How many people do you know have purchased more than one version of the sim and continue to show any interest? The designers of the sim must be aware of this and yet they continue to develop the product. Why?My theory is that the driving force behind the sim's ongoing development is the sense of pride felt by the developers and their desire to satisfy the needs of people like ourselves who are truly capable of appreciating the result of their invested time, effort and dedication. If that support shows signs of dwindling the sim will suffer because there will be nobody with sufficient motivation left on the design team. Where would be the job satisfaction?Clearly, the continued existence of the product must also depend on sales and as long as sales hold up their jobs remain assured. Sadly, voices of dissatisfaction and frustration with Microsoft's perceived policies towards after sales product support are now being heard and we need to stop the rot now before it is too late. Okay, I will be the first to admit that my motivation is a selfish one in that since I became interested in computers all those years ago there has never been any software that has so captured my interest and imagination as has Flight Simulator. Joining a community such as this has been an added bonus and to see all that being threatened by attitudes which, at best, could be regarded as being shortsighted, would be tragic indeed.We are not asking for the moon. All we are requesting is, as Elrond has stated so eloquently on many previous occasions, is parity with other gaming houses. This can not be an unreasonable request and I would hope that Microsoft will react to it in the same spirit as it is intended. This is the only reason for running a poll - to demonstrate our true depth of feelings on this issue in the hope that Microsoft will acknowledge and respect the fact and be persuaded to take positive action sooner rather than later. They know what is needed, I am sure. It's down to us to do the pushing to get the ball rolling.Mike

Daniel I don't have much to say about anything you mentioned above except for the last comment:"That's not what you're asking for though. You're not questioning MS support's effectiveness, you are basically demanding a patch with the claim that if not FS will stop making profit. Think about this: How many times have users done this in previous versions, and said the SAME thing? Every time a new version comes out. Has FS gone out of market? Thought so. Well, I guess MSFS WILL sell even if MS doesn't patch it... Is that telling you something?"I am questioning MS's support effectiveness, at this point it's non-existent. I'm not demanding a patch but if the sim needs one it should have one. If you know anything about FS's history, most versions prior to FS2k2 were patched. As I mentioned earlier one version had to be patched because Microsoft tried to lock down the sim after Bao released FS FlightShop. Before that patch you could only use FS's default aircraft. So your point here is totally wrong...Microsoft just started this non-patching trend recently (FS2k2). Better due your homework Daniel... Now, can anyone name a version in FS's history besides FS2k2 that wasn't patched, I'd like to know???

Mike and Paul, you guys took the words right out of my mouth...Thanks.

>Now, can anyone name a version in FS's history besides FS2k2>that wasn't patched, I'd like to know???Here is what Was patched as far as I can remeber:FS1.0 Do not knowFS2.0 Do not knowFS3.0 I believe there was an upgrade but not sure.FS4.0 Upgrade was availabe through BAO $$$FS5.0 patchedFS6.0 Patched (FS95)FS6.1 Patched (FS98)FS7.0 Patched (FS2000)FS8.0 No (FS2002)FS9.0 not yet (fs2004)

Ok... You asked for it. :-lol>I am questioning MS's support effectiveness, at this point>it's non-existent. I'm not demanding a patch but if the sim>needs one it should have one. If you know anything about FS's>history, most versions prior to FS2k2 were patched. I don't know my history? Chances are I am more up-to-date about this community than you, let alone the fact that I can identify from both sides of the balance (simmer AND developer), so I think I have a better standing to comment than you do, a factual mistake doesn't mean I "don't know my history". You thought PIC v2 was still developed by Wilco and made a drama out of it... At least I don't refute when I know I'm defeated.>As I mentioned earlier one version had to be patched because>Microsoft tried to lock down the sim after Bao released FS>FlightShop. Before that patch you could only use FS's default>aircraft. So your point here is totally wrong...Totally wrong? The ONLY part of my statement that is wrong is the last 2 sentences. The entirity of the post I responded to was erroneous (and from your previous posts, probably meant to stir confusion)>Microsoft just started this non-patching trend recently>(FS2k2). Better due your homework Daniel... I don't need to "due" any homework because you're nit-picking on my point. How many flaws have been left unanswered in FS history? And people keep buying. Hell, you bought CoF. You're quick to judge, slow to get the facts straight. I suggest you don't tell me to "due" my homework when you wrote an entire post and I disarmed it entirely with a few lines... You do your homework, MS can go by ignoring you if such was their wish. And will you end up buying? Yup, you will. And if you don't, I don't think MS will suffer over it. Others (probably more informed and argumentative) shall come. :)

Still can't answer the question Dan?Since your misinformed replies concerning the FS2K patch of last week and now this...why not just give up and quit waisting space?

Excuse me?? I clearly stated that I was not sure on the last thread, the one wasting space is you, since you're not contributing to the discussion with your comments. At least if you want to diss, do so smartly. ;-)DP

O.K. Daniel you got me, I misspelled 'due' (oops 'do')...(smile).I already apologized for the PICv2 statement so there's no reason to bring up past dirt to throw at someone to make a point. Just like people came down on me because I was wrong is no different than what happened to you here. Your statement basically said most FS releases have never been patched so there's no reason for MS to patch this version and your totally wrong so we pointed that out and backed it up with facts... Try doing what I did and apologize for being wrong.Now the whole point of this thread is to try and reach Microsoft and hopefully bring about a positive change (whatever that may turn out to be). If we were unimportant and Microsoft listened to the casual user why would so many key people including Microsoft admit to reading these forums??? So instead of going #### for tat like children it would be best if we stick to what the original poster is trying to accomplish. If you don't agree or have nothing supportive to say, you don't have to be involved...

>Still can't answer the question Dan?>>Since your misinformed replies concerning the FS2K patch of>last week and now this...why not just give up and quit>waisting space?>>I like Dan's repliesMakes more sense in the "real" scheme of things.L.Adamson

>Excuse me?? I clearly stated that I was not sure on the last>thread, Clearly.>the one wasting space is you, since you're not>contributing to the discussion with your comments. At least if>you want to diss, do so smartly. ;-)>>DPI believe I have contributed more in just the few lines ("quit waisting space") in the last reply to you than all of your ignorant and incorrect replies concerning the subject. :)

If that sim came out with issues like we found in FS2k4, that would #### people off more just because of the timeframe it took for release... Microsoft just has to acknowledge their work can never be perfect out the gate and provide updates when problems are discovered (like they've done so many times in the past). No different than what every other developer does.Waite a minute, look at WindowsXP SP1...

>>Still can't answer the question Dan?>>>>Since your misinformed replies concerning the FS2K patch of>>last week and now this...why not just give up and quit>>waisting space?>>>>>I like Dan's replies>>Makes more sense in the "real" scheme of things.>>L.AdamsonYeah, we know that Larry, misinformation is really great stuff!You were one of the beta testers that felt flickering menus among other things was OK, and we all thank you.I've gotta a great OS here for you to try Larry, I think you would really enjoy it...Its called WinMe by MS, a real keeper! :-lol

We all know your stance on this Larry, I get depressed just thinking about it.

Paul, until I posted I actually had heard NOTHING about you guys trying convince MS that they had a problem.I DO think that's the only effective approach...you're now accepting the real challenge.Perhaps in hinds sight, you'll realize its a good thing I didn't just blindly "support the effort or leave it be". B