Would you be able to land an Airliner in an emergency ?

[Guest ha5mvo]

"I would wait to see if a current pilot wasn't deadheading from somewhere who was 'fresh' and up on the curve"exactly that!!with quite a few hours behind the yoke of 707s and herks (yet by far less than you clay :) ) I will try to land one ONLY IF there was no other option. I have serious doubts as to the success of such landing. I know each switch and bolt on these aircrafts with my eyes closed, yet alas, I did not train for years now, and I know my flying skills have deteriorated considerably.A Flight simulator can be a handy tool to become familiarized with the cockpit, practice some procedures maybe, what it CAN'T do is teach you to fly, this is something one can only learn by actually operating the real thing. This is why pilots keep training and various authorities keep asessing thir skills, this is also why a computer pilot will NOT be able to fly a RW plane (even the ones with many joystick hours under thir belt :) ).//Mike

[Guest P3_Super_Bee]

I dought it very seriously. Would give it one heck of a try though. Just did another 2 hours in a P-3 full motion simulator. Still haven't been able to get it down. I can taxi, takeoff just have put it on the ground. came close quite a few times. I have been in the sim with about 7 different people(non-pilots), and have only seen one land it and that was just once and kinda a lucky shot. And he is also a simmer. And he had a LOT of coaching on that one.:-outtahttp://www.flightsimnetwork.com/dcforum/Us...43942b48d2b.jpg

[Guest]

Clay Dopke wrote:"Michael S's formula 1 Ferrari and post lap times close enough to just 'stay behind' and keep Michael S in sight. It just isn't likley to happen."I worked for a Porsche dealer took PCA club high performance driving clinics. Think I could keep up :)Landing big iron though probably not. My dad had the brillient idea of making all us kids take flying lessons in case he could no-longer control his plane. I had not flown for real in about 6 years. The company I work for is considering a small plane due to frequent trip's; Wenatchee to: Seattle,Vancouver,B.C.,San Fran,LA,Chico. The plane we considered TBM-700, since I'm the only one with flying experience I did a test flight of a slightly used one. I got her down but my landing was let's just say ego-shattering. I've flown M.S. flight sim,Fly, and a few others since I was at least 13 years old, I'm 30 currently :( . Any-way it was so bad the sales/pilot guy should have taken the controls for landing. Steve

[Guest]

Depends what kind of plane it is... I would be far more usefull programming the FMC versus landing say a 767 etc. etc.!AUTOLAND.Kevin

[Guest dkukla]

Love this topic, thought about it many times over the years. One angle that was briefly touched on is "you gonna do this alone"? For many reasons I would like someone to be in the right seat with me up there. Maybe the F/A, another simmer, someone that has an hour and a half in a C150, etc. As many have noted, there is a lot to do up there and concentrate on so, an extra set of hands, with some level of knowledge of flight, would be a big asset.The second person would also be a psychological "plus" and/or can always be the one running for our final double martini right after locking onto the ILS. Even if the F/A takes the left seat due to liability and Co policy aspects, I am sure that someone, with some knowledge, would be a "comfort" to have alongside. It would have to be a confidence booster, at least, and like someone else pointed out, having a Co. person there will keep the F16's off your backside.I agree with many here. I dont want to be on that aircraft, told to stay in my seat, belt on, and have to ride out the last 15 minutes of my life reading Viagra adds in the in the Co magazine. Would I give it a shot, you bet, considering the options. One question: With all the "intelligence" in aircraft today, existing high speed communications links from the ground, why couldn't the experts on the ground gain "control" over the aircraft from that aspect and leave the human there just for any manual tasks or a last resort? Been doing that for years with the space program! Even saw this in development years ago when they worked on "windowless" cockpits!Just a thought.

[teropa 4]

Obk,I don't see your point ? Really ?What are you trying to tell me here ? I visited a flight training center a couple of days ago and flew a FFS B757 level D simulator with no problems... made several manual approaches and landings, and completed a whole flight without any problems. I guess it just can't be done by someone without the ATPL, now can it ?sighTero

[teropa 4]

Hi all,Check out this thread I started at PPrune a year ago. Especially check the last replies in there.http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.ph...&threadid=63654I had a go at a Boeing 757 Full flight simulator (levelD) and flew several approaches and landings, stalls, and a complete flight as well, without problems. Of course the control forces took some time (like a few turns) to adjust, but it was no more than "ok, it's like this... here we go then". Like our instructor said, the sim is 99.5% of the real thing, then I guess I've just proved a lot of what has been said here untrue.The event of safely driving a 757 to destination in a real plane, in an emergency is something that I can't comment on, since I've never been in such situation, but at least with something that is AS CLOSE AS humanly possible, it was easy. Period.have fun arguing! Oh I so want to read all the flames from egoistic jet ATPs who get offended by such topics as this. After all, pilots are all overhumans ;).Seriously, pilots are trained to deliver the plane+pax from A to B safely in ANY circumstances. It doesn't mean that hard core simmer couldn't do it in normal conditions. Flying a transport category aircraft is no riding a bike, but it's something that humans do... and some of them are just ordinary people ;)Terops. PIC767 for life ;D

[Guest Blue Skyy]

Right after I started my private way back in 2000 I did just this same thing - I pulled back on the steering wheel of my mom's vovlo as a car cut me off.My friends tells of a story in which one night while driving home he instictively moved toward the center of the road - the striped lines looked like runway centerline markings.:).SkyyAnd no, I do not think an armchair pilot could land an airliner. I've flown Cessna's and pipers for 3 years now, moving up to CFI-I, and when I moved into the beech 1900D (level D sim however) landing and flying the aircraft was COMPLETELY different than a 172.

[Guest]

Why not you be the co-pilot and she be the pilot.. I think the SOP would much rathar have a flight sim co-pilot in the seat scanning the instruments because F/As with no exp probabaly do not scan instruments well.

[LawnDart 19]

I would hope, that if the misfortune ever presented itself, that I *would* be able to step up and save hundreds of lives. I cannot say that I would be successful, due to so many real-world factors, but I would hope that I would be.Several years ago I took a class at the old Denver airport in which a few dozen of us had the opportunity to fly a 737-200 sim at the old United training facility.Long story short, each of us had a turn at flying left-seat, seated next to an equally unqualified right-seater. Each classmate had varying degrees of experience. Some were corporate pilots with several hundred hours. A scant few like myself, had a PPL with maybe 100 hours avg, but hundreds of hours in simming experience.What was interesting to note, is that the real-world career corporate pilots had a more difficult time staying on top of the airplane than the simmers.I shot an ILS down to minimums, using the flight director (complete with the requisite S-Turns all the way down the beam =)I didn't make the runway. The mains struck the very first light bulb in the rabbit ears and I continued making GE a very happy company until landing several hundred yards short of the threshold. I guess that's what happens when you let the airplane arrive before your brain does.Ironically, mine was the best landing of the group! That's not saying much, but it is interesting that a fly-by-number sim pilot exercised the highest degree of control through the landing phase.

[Guest]

well, combined with my real world flight expirience with ga aircraft, i have about 16.5 hours on the 152, and sim expirience,764 and l1011 according to the instructor i did a better landing than some of the pilots, lol, and fs expirience ill have no problem with the take over being that i do have a good feel for a heavy plane. and now i realised that i already posted in this oops.....

[Guest]

I probably would have no problem taking over... except they would need all the emergency vehicles they could get if I was in a Boeing, but in an Airbus, I am more used to the cockpit/controls and speeds, so I wouldn't have a single problem with it. But again, my chances in real life dictate that there is a greater possibilty of me flying an Airbus than a Boeing so that explains why.

[Guest]

Hey Guys,I've had about 4 hours in various FAA LEVEL D SIMS (4 more coming this weekend yay!) and I've been able to put the birds down safely everytime in various weather conditions with out much problem. If the real planes really do fly like their $$$$ million dollar $$$ fake counterparts then I would say I could do it for sure. Thanks,Paul

[Splash_One 0]

I'll be one of the few to tell the truth here and say no. But that no comes from a series of factors (some previously mentioned).- Is there a more qualified person onboard?- What is the current situation?- What is the current behavior of the passengers?Those are just a few...We seem to think "Oh, I've flown it on Flight Simulator, so I can probably fly it here... but the aircraft probably won't survive.."Lets have a raise of hands- who has flown the MSFS C-172 , then a REAL C-172... *I have! I Have!*"Comparison, Please...""There is none... except for the external model and panel... its completely different."What makes us think doing this in a 767 in FS then in real life would be any easier? Would you know what to do if an engine fails and your left wing is non responsive to any commands? What if a cabin door came open? Would you put the aircraft into a dive to get to an oxygen safe level? I would certainly hope not :) What would happen if you couldn't get out of that dive? Eer hear of a high speed stall? Ask some WWII fighter pilots...FS probably simulates less than %10 of how a real aircraft would re-act...The only way I would say yes is if nobody else on board knew more than me, and the passengers were comfortable letting a fifteen year old save their lives, by all means I'll be up there recalling every single second, every single detail I have ever learned, every inch of knowledge I have ever, ever have been taught into play, and try nothing but my best to get down safely. Nothing... but my best.Jason :-wave

[Guest united777]

I agree. I thought I knew how to fly a cessna.. WHATEVER! YOu know nothing the first time you hop into the left seat. YOu have checklists, communications, equipment checks, resetting, lighting, seat adjustment, wind correction, taxing, traffic avoidance, weather checking, rudder trim and trimming. Those are just a few of the things you have to do in the period of a minute or two.. And there is no pause button. After take off, you are constantly trimming and scanning and throttle changes. It's hard work, it's fun. If I was informed about this situation, I would say yes, as I have experience in a REAL aircraft and I have just recently recovered an aircraft from an un expected stall. going from crusing at MCA were the controlls are very mushy to falling 100 feet from a 25knts gust of wind, recovering in 200 feet was no easy task. Carb heat in, Throttle full, mixture full ( if needed). and flaps 20. nose down, but not to the point of the critical angle of attack or you'll stall again. but if the situation arises, BRING IT ON!here is a little comparison list I have made between FS and RWFS:-no fatigue or realworld factors affecting you.-every thing can be corrected as to your likings.-the systems although MAY APPEAR real, are far from real.-the way in which you do something in FS is not how you do it in realworld.-using even a 'realistic' force feedback yoke, you still don't have all of those G's and other factors pushing on you while you're flying.RW:fatigue and other factors are minimalyou can't back out of what you get yourself intothere is no pause buttonyou can't decide waht failures you want today.you can't hit the pause button to take a leak or to answer a phone call.---------------------------------------------------------------------Yes, barring any alternatives I would have the nerve to take over but, getting it down - now that's another story. If the autopilot works anything like the PSS 777 I think I might have a chance but who knows.--Not meaning to bash you buddy, but if psshi* was actually realistic with regards to the real 777 being like pss777's current design, we'd all have the IQ of a 10 year old, cuz I can tell you, I own a factory issued boeing 777 manual from (obviously) the factory and I can tell you that nothing is close to how the real system works!I can tell you that taxing an aircraft doesn't conssit of panning with your thumb.. it consist of calling out 'clear left' 'clear right'. using the throttle then brakes to slow down. making sure nobody is approaching you to fast.. It's like math, if one thing goes wrong, it won't work.I have a scenaro here for the ones who said yes but have yet to flyYou're on approach for London Heathrow, the weather is 1sm visibility with winds 22015/G25 your left engine is on fire. what do you do.. translated.. visibility is one statue mile winds are 220 degrees with winds at 15 gusting to 25knts.. I leave the rest to you.. If a decently accurate answer is not aquired. THen uh I dunno.. :-lolgood luck.. my life is in your hand;)."... AND I'M PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!"[b/]