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When you've moved it--- you've killed it........

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Such as the topic ""Would you be able to land an Airliner in an emergency ?"I didn't really care to respond to this thread, but when it's moved from here, to a forum such as the "Hangar Forum" then it's practically dead anyway! From the looks of it, the Hangar forum doesn't seem to have much business. I'd hate see to any topic that relates to real aviation, or one that combines real aviation and simulation......... moved! Besides this same thread generated many replies at the "other place" in the general MSFS forum. To shuffle some of these postings off to obscure areas seems to take some of the fun and interest out of this forum; at least that's my opinion. How about a re-change of policy? L.Adamson

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Well, the current policy is that this MSFS General forum is for MS Flight Simulator (in reality that probably includes 5, 98, 2000 and 2002 ;-) ), and all things not directly pertaining to that topic should be moved to a specialized forum or to the 'general forum for all things aviation', which is the Hangar Forum.Over to the boss, I guess..... >>>>>> :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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I know what you mean - I have started checking the "Hangar" forum now as a matter of course, but I always start off in this forum !!

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Well, call me anal retentive (actually, don't!) but I like it when everything is in the right place. MSFS Forum for Flight Sim, Fly Forum for Fly stuff, Hangar Chat for aviation jokes and TWA800 Updates, and the Screenshots Forum for Screenshots Only (Hint, Hint, Mr. Adamson ;))If that sort of topic interests you, perhaps you should take a few minutes each day to pop into the Hangar Chat forum, you might like it there! :-)Edit: HeHeHe... I got lost, this is the MSFS Forum. For some reason, I thought I was in the Screenshots Place! Excuse my Hint to Mr. Adamson. Now, where's my Mommy?!?

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...and I, for one, would hate to see it changed. Let those who's interests lie elsewhere go elsewhere. But, please, leave things as they are and keep this forum on-topic. Trip

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Sticking to the policy, this thread also belongs in the Hangar Chat.. and that's where I am going to move it to. :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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Hehe... bet you loved doing that !!!:-jumpy

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Uhoh.... am I THAT tranparent ??? LOL Sorry Larry... ahem. :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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Yes, you are right.. The Hangar forun is very quiet. Although I check it every day and try to reply more..it's nothing compared to the MS forum. Maybe people are not as aware about this forum as they are about the MS forum. Oh Well, maybe the more we post here the more people will read it and it will become more active.Mike

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Larry:I couldn't agree more and posted my comments earlier, but it was probably moved!! When did all this policing start? It's a dragAlex CN562ZKMSP - Minneapolis

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Mike,that was one of the reasons we got rid of another 'general' forum, made the Hangar Forum the main 'off-topic' one and are trying to clean up the MSFS forum often.It is going to take a bit of time for everybody to learn and adjust obviously, but we feel it is the way we provide the best service to the majority of our visitors.Have a MS Flight Sim topic, question? Where to look? In the MSFS Forum.Have something else.... Hangar Chat !! :-) :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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It is certainly better now that GENERAL & HANGAR have been merged !!!

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Larry,You're missing the point. If those topics would be started here in the first place, the Hangar Chat forum would have the same viewing as the FS forum.The reason Hangar Chat doesn't get much viewing IS because no one posts what should be here here.So in moving those topics here that belong here, this forum will pick up.Pavlov.

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>>You're missing the point. If those topics would be started >here in the first place, the Hangar Chat forum would have >the same viewing as the FS forum. >Maybe I just think different. I combine real piloting with sim piloting, and my postings and thoughts seem to relect this. If real and simulated has to be shuffled off into two different forums, then my interest is sure to be lost. I thought one of the purposes of FS2002 and it's real life data-bases was to simulate real flight and bring it up above levels of just a game. Now it seems we're being segregated at the moderators will, into "game" versus "real life". If the intention is to create a "simmers only" board, then that's what will happen!L.Adamson

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Yeah..merging has made this forum more active...it will probably be a while before everyone gets used to to posting here in the first place..then this forum will be more active.Take careMike

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Larry,I don't see it that way. I see the reality posts being here and applicable to ALL sims, not just FS.This way, true fans of whatever sim have a common place to discuss flying and FS vs. realty, or FS as reality, or FS's in general. They can do it without feeling out of place in a forum they otherwise don't participate in. For example, you don't get a lot of that TRI vs. MS stuff here because there's no pressure from the TRI or FS community of each particular forum.I think it's just a lot better. Then interesting real aviation stories, anecdotes, horrors, and good times are posted. Interesting debates can be done. Interesting comparisons can be made, including between sim sites. All without that pressure of being...a troll. You know exactly what (who) I'm talking about, I'm sure. ;-)Alternately, that's why so many people post in "their" forum. They feel comfortable. They know most people there. They have supporters. All that should be the same here.I'm as comfortable posting here as in the RC or FS forums. I don't pay that much attention to viewings on most things. And when I want something to stick around a long, long time, I certainly don't post in the FS forum. It's gone in a day.Just my 25.46 bucks worth (inflation).(Additional)Speaking of the pressure. For the longest time I avoided the FS forum like the plague because no matter what I, or anyone else, posted there, there were a couple three people that would immediately jump all over the posts, with that "You don't belong in 'my' forum" attitude. Now that those people are gone it's open to everyone, just like all the forums should be. But it's still good to separate out the FS and other items from the general items, then when I do a search of something specific in MSFS, I can find it.Personally, I would have titled the anchored thread at the top: "Can't find a post? Look in Hangar Chat". Then more people would come here to look. Again - Pavlov.And until people get into the habit of reading this forum, you can always post a reference link to this forum in the FS forum if you want more views.

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>So in moving those topics here that belong here, this forum >will pick up. Perhaps, but I doubt it. My feeling is that people tend to go where they want and prefer to go (as reflected in the stats on the main forums page), and I know personally I won't be visiting this forum much at all unless I see a link or reference to it in the MSFS forum on a subject of interest (as in this case).I agree with Larry that a wider range of subjects--though within some tolerable and flexible limits--in the MSFS forum generally adds to the experience. The best examples for me would concern hardware: If a stiff policy was established redirecting all the excellent information posted on all types of hardware, and the Intel vs. AMD debates, etc., the MSFS forum would lose a lot of its appeal to me. I also like to see views on things such as the relative merits of X-Plane or other sims, which again under a strict interpretation might be redirected elsewhere.On the other hand, I'll have to admit to being very irritated by many of the recent nothing-to-do-with-MSFS "personal" or "joking" types of threads--the ones that frequently have some individual user's name in the title--that have been popping up constantly in the MSFS forum. I definitely feel those have been detracting from the place, and making it less business-like. If this policy is used to banish those to the Hangar Chat forum (or better yet, the deletion bin), then I'm totally in favor of that move.Actually a similar policy of redirection seems to have been going on in the Flightsim.com MSFS forum, where many of the types of threads that used to be introduced there are now shut down and sent to the "Outer Marker" forum. I rarely pop in on that one, however, so if a thread is shut down and moved there I'll usually move on to something else. In most cases I think it's a bit of a shame to see many threads locked down and redirected so fast; my preference would be for case-by-case judgment to be applied as opposed to a firm policy on what stays and what doesn't.

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Sorry, but I think that YOU are missing the point. As was stated, the first place that most people go to is the FS2K2 Forum. If they have something to say, regardless if it's *exactly* on topic there, they post it. They don't expect their topic to be unceremoniously moved to another Forum, especially if it seems to be a popular topic that is interesting enough for a lot of people to respond to. When they, and the others that found it interesting, go back to see what was newly posted, it's gone. Then they have to wend their way to another Forum to respond. Once again, other than being anal, just what is the big deal? What is the purpose of these Forums? To have people enjoy whatever topics that they find, in the main area that they go to, or to make it difficult for them to do so?

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Edam,No, I don't miss the point. The reason people post there is because they are too lazy to move over one forum to post or read where it's appropriate.Since it's been so long since AVSIM have enforced the policy that people have become accustomed to just posting whatever wherever, no matter how much it has nothing to do with the forum.And if it's such a popular topic in the FS forum, there's no reason it suddenly isn't popular in the appropriate forum, except that again people are just too lazy to click on "Hangar Chat" and just expect the big party in the FS forum.It takes me exactly one minute to look through the FS, Hangar Chat, and RC forums to see if there's anything there to whet my interest.I actually feel a slight responsibility for the zeal of ADMIN's moving things, because Francois' post and the moving thing started right after I asked that something be done. I was searching for a specific FS topic and information and the only things that came up were completely irrelevant.I also don't care about a lot of the posts in the FS forum - those which mostly have nothing to do with MSFS. So they don't belong there.There's just no reason these posts can't go where they belong. AVSIM does an excellent job of supporting bunches of forums, all of which have been carefully thought out to apply to their specific subjects.So, again, I do not miss the point. If a subject is only popular because it's in the FS forum, then maybe it's not all that popular. It's just convenient.In time people will expect the MSFS forum to have MSFS stuff, X-Plane will have X-Plane stuff, RC will have RC stuff, other specific forums will have their specific stuff, and Hangar Chat will have everything else. This is where I want to look to find real-world things, and general topics. I like it that way.And logically it should be that way.

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>And if it's such a popular topic in the FS forum, there's no >reason it suddenly isn't popular in the appropriate forum, There is a reason!!!!.................. hardly anyone is going to be here to read it! Lazyiness or not, I don't care to rummage through all these forums. It's kind of like a popular "bar"; everyone is hanging out at the "FS2002". This one just get's a few drifters once and a while... :)L.Adamson

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Larry,>>And if it's such a popular topic in the FS forum, there's no >>reason it suddenly isn't popular in the appropriate forum, >>There is a reason!!!!.................. hardly anyone is >going to be here to read it! Lazyiness or not, I don't care >to rummage through all these forums. It's kind of like a >popular "bar"; everyone is hanging out at the "FS2002". This >one just get's a few drifters once and a while... :) >>L.AdamsonYeah, I know. That's why the rest of that paragraph is:"And if it's such a popular topic in the FS forum, there's no reason it suddenly isn't popular in the appropriate forum, except that again people are just too lazy to click on "Hangar Chat" and just expect the big party in the FS forum.";-)Besides, I like being a drifter. ;-)

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Look at the thread Larry.... alive for over a day already !! ;-)If nothing else, these heated discussions WILL make people aware of the 'new' role of the Hangar Chat Forum.... so thanks for starting it ;-) :-outta Francois :-wave________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online!email: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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>No, I don't miss the point. The reason people post there is >because they are too lazy to move over one forum to post or >read where it's appropriate. Scott,Rather than calling it laziness, I would say that "convenience" is what the issue is. Again, some of us go to the FS2K2 Forum first, in fact, that's where my bookmark points to. But, are there that many people complaining about off-topic posts? If that is the case, that may explain the sudden tightening of the rules here. If not, I don't see what the problem is.>Since it's been so long since AVSIM have enforced the policy >that people have become accustomed to just posting whatever >wherever, no matter how much it has nothing to do with the >forum. I can see where that could be a problem, IF there were an incredible amount of totally "off the wall" postings. Personally, I haven't seen that in the FS2K2 Forum. In fact, most of the topics that would be strictly considered off topic, have been interesting to read.>And if it's such a popular topic in the FS forum, there's no >reason it suddenly isn't popular in the appropriate forum, >except that again people are just too lazy to click on >"Hangar Chat" and just expect the big party in the FS forum. Yes, and if it's a "big party" that a lot of people want to join in on, what's wrong with keeping it where it is and making the members happy? It draws them back to the place that they go to first. Laziness is not an issue with that. It's going back to the Forum, looking for that interesting thread, not finding it, then having to check the other Forum, wondering if it has been moved or deleted. >It takes me exactly one minute to look through the FS, >Hangar Chat, and RC forums to see if there's anything there >to whet my interest. I've never timed it, so I don't know about that. Either way, it's not the time it takes, it's having to do it that can be a pain.>I actually feel a slight responsibility for the zeal of >ADMIN's moving things, because Francois' post and the moving >thing started right after I asked that something be done. I >was searching for a specific FS topic and information and >the only things that came up were completely irrelevant. Then you feel our pain? Heh...(I don't use smilies, but if I did, one would be there.>I also don't care about a lot of the posts in the FS forum - >those which mostly have nothing to do with MSFS. So they >don't belong there. Yes, but if you don't care about them, it's easy, most of the time, to just skip over them. I skim the Forum posts, mainly on the first page, and if there is a subject title that I wouldn't be interested in, I skip over it. If there was one that I had previously been interested in, that disappeared, I would have to check the second, or third page to see if it was there, and if not, then go to the Hanger Chat Forum to see if was moved there. A lot more than a minute wasted. (Yes, 2 minutes, 3 minutes...whatever. Still an inconvenience.)>There's just no reason these posts can't go where they >belong.Yes there is, as stated above. I agree with you partly, something totally off topic should be placed in the Hangar Forum. Those that are "iffy," I would say don't be so quick to move.>AVSIM does an excellent job of supporting bunches >of forums, all of which have been carefully thought out to >apply to their specific subjects.Indeed. But are the results TOO carefully thought out, TOO quick to act upon, when it really does no harm in keeping *somewhat* off topic posts where they are?>So, again, I do not miss the point. If a subject is only >popular because it's in the FS forum, then maybe it's not >all that popular. It's just convenient. Exactly! And what's wrong with having certain topics "convenient" for the regulars to get, and contribute, to?>In time people will expect the MSFS forum to have MSFS >stuff, X-Plane will have X-Plane stuff, RC will have RC >stuff, other specific forums will have their specific stuff, >and Hangar Chat will have everything else. This is where I >want to look to find real-world things, and general topics. >I like it that way. It's not that simple, the myiad of different people being what they are, and further, the amount of people asking for what makes them comfortable, rather than the few complainers that come forth. >And logically it should be that way.Ah! NOW I understand! You are a Vulcan! I wish that I knew that before I started this long post, I would have worded it differently!At any rate, "live long and prosper."(Again, I don't use smilies. I believe that postings should be considered on the words that are said, and that people should get to know where the poster is coming from before critisizing what they believe WAS said. This is just text on a screen, no one knows whether I was smiling, or of a good nature when I typed what I did. Figure it out.)

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When I ran a msg board (it only had 15k members), if there was a thread that didn't belong in a proper forum, I locked the thread and left a msg in there saying that I moved the thread over here and gave the reason why I moved it. What this does is it tells the people that have participated or is following the thread where it went in a polite manner.Needless to say when you move the thread to another forum by completely making it disappear, people are going to start thinking/assuming a couple of things:1. Ok, the forum is screwed up or the DB is porked. The board's software is junk!2. AVsim is just too sensitive about everything (nothing against you guys.. I love the site)3. Hey, that was rude! ... At least tell me where the thread went and why did you moved it???4. Ahh.. The scavenger hunt begins. 5. What's the use on carrying a discussion in here?Suffice to say, most ppl are just content to stay and post in their favorite forums and try to stay within the forum guidelines. If you are trying to make a forum "popular", I would suggest leaving the original thread in tact but locked with the mod/Admin's instructions at the end of the thread. Believe it or not, it works, people will move to the discussion to the other forum .. that's of course, if they really want to pursue it. Now please don't take my reply in this thread as a personal attach for which it was not meant to be one. Ciao!Julian

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