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Hand flying, ATS and approach types

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To what extent is the MD-11 hand flown in real life?Is changing to manual control early on approach an exception?And if the plane is hand flown, is ATS left on even for landings up to touchdown?I have the impression that smaller planes allow for the more "dangerous" sort of flying, i.e. curved approaches like Tegucigalpa (short final), and that's done routinely, whereas bigger ones like the MD-11 seem to be flown "on the safe side" with only little hand flying. Is that true, or are MD-11s on the "wild side" sometimes as well?

Andreas, LOWW

- Nihil sumus et fuimus mortales. Respice, lector: In nihil ab nihilo quam cito recidimus.

Hi Ajinterl,I'm no expert but maybe this video might help,these two pilots seem to be doing a "severe clear" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EQ9-m-nuPIIf that don't show just go to u-tube and type in "severe clear,md-11 and u should be able to view it. The one pilot turn off a/p then banks to the right for runway approach, pretty amazing!Sixxer,

  • Commercial Member

Some of this depends on the airline SOP, but here is my long, but generic answer:Some airlines require the AP to be turned on at about 1000' AGL, especially in the case of VNAV/LNAV path guidance. This is in order to let the FMS compute the optimal (most efficient -> less fuel -> less $) flight path and have the AP follow that.AP Disengagement Minima are dictated by FAR 125 Section 329, which basically states that the AP must be disengaged around the decision height or minimum decision altitude for the approach (that is a gross oversimplification, however - the actual language is here). Basically, you are required to turn it off by approximately the DH/MDA for the approach being flown. In the case of a visual approach, 500' AGL (125.329(a)). Again, an airline SOP may dictate some altitude higher than that of the FARs (e.g. 1000').I'm not sure where this stigma in the flightsim world cropped up that planes just fly themselves now, but it is rather vexing (the "autoland at an airport without ILS" thread makes me want to cry, really). The only approaches in which aircraft land themselves are CAT-III approaches. In that case, the pilots, aircraft and airport must all be properly equipped - no CAT-III ILS approach to the airport, no AP-coupled landing, end of story. As far as when it is appropriate, I disengage sooner rather than later. It gives me a feeling for how the plane is flying so I know how much control input is necessary for a controlled landing.To my knowledge, and my current practice in the sim, ATS is left on takeoff to landing. Let the aircraft handle the throttles from their initial setting on the takeoff roll, all the way up to the application of reverse thrust on landing. There is really no reason to turn it off in the MD-11.Dangerous versus safe is really subjective, based on the factors associated with each airport and the aircraft involved. Basically, something tame for a CRJ (landing on a shorter runway), could be dangerous for a larger aircraft. It all depends.

Kyle Rodgers

curved approaches like Tegucigalpa (short final), and that's done routinely, whereas bigger ones like the MD-11 seem to be flown "on the safe side" with only little hand flying. Is that true, or are MD-11s on the "wild side" sometimes as well?
I don't think it is correct to interpret it as a "wild" side. It is true that smaller the aircraft the smaller airfield it can fly into, the smallest ones can even land at some remote mountain strips that can be very challenging. MD-11s fly to airports where there is a need for them, where commerce needs them. If necessary they would probably fly to Tegucigalpa as well. All airlines require some balance between hand flying and automation - it is necessary for pilots to retain hand-flying skills. Every airline may have specific guidelines about that.

Michael J.

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