Can not restart engines BAe 4100

[bsavo 0]

I am new to turbo props, When my aircraft first appears at the airpart my engines are running. So I shut down. I program my flight, check all gauges, the eletric supply is above 24 volts, Im ready for my start up. I turn on the pressure pump the left switch is feathered. generators and batterys are on. I left click to start engine 1 it cranks for about 2mins. then shuts down . No start. I can not make a second restart. Im missing something here . Bob Savo

[pete_auau 1,163]

Hi be better if u had posted this in the correct thread not the 737 but have u got the fuel pumps turned on (maybe the mod can transfer this thread to the correct forum)

[scandinavian13 5,192]

You probably didn't put the aircraft on the start locks. There is a sticky in the relevant part of the forum (the Turboprops forum) about the start locks and how they are engaged/disengaged:http://forum.avsim.net/topic/261431-js41-startup-guide/

[ronzie 21]

To prevent an aircraft saved with a flight in a C&D situation or at least engines off from running engines momentarily when loading you must save a default aircraft in a state you want parked somewhere, engines off, and preferably with the clear-weather theme as your FS default flight. This flight initializes some parameters in the FS state engine when FS initially starts and then in time gets modified as your created or selected flight loads.If a aircraft is loaded after a default flight set with engines running, the loaded aircraft will temporarily run until fuel starvation occurs if the fuel cut-off levers are in the cut-off position.

[Nima 0]

FSX PMDG BAe Jetstream 4100 Engine Start http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VSzKuEk0As

[scandinavian13 5,192]

...and the video above is reason number 457 not to look to YouTube for your information. I'm not going to even start posting how many things were wrong in that video.I think the real issue here is not that he doesn't know how to start the plane, it's that he was never taught how to use the locks, so when he shuts down, the props feather, and when he's trying to start, it's burning the starter.

[bsavo 0]

I have found that on shut down its all about the feathering. One prop is feathered on is not. One wont feather the other will . So on shut down. after the rpm slows a little I put the prop in reverse and that is supposeto lock the props in feathered mode. Its been working for now except if i spend to much time setting up for flight say 10 or 15 mns the left prop will start to un feather. So I get into this problem keeping the props feathered. If someone has a better way on procedure for me, I,m all ears. I do enjoy the aircraft, its must be a windows 64 bit FSX thing to get all these things . Sorry,,, Bob Savo

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Stop the engines using the stop switches on the overhead. Do not use the feather locks to set the condition levers to off/feather unless it is an in-flight emergency (one of the 457 reasons I mentioned above to not pay attention to the crap posted on YouTube).Go to the overhead panel and hit STOP, and the engines will spool down. As the RPM drops, put the power levers in the reverse range to set them on the locks. Feather should never even cross your mind. Don't look for anything called feather, don't think about feather, and don't move the condition levers rearward of the TAXI position. This is not a Cessna, or a King Air for that matter.If you're looking for a better procedure reference, please try the tutorial.

[rotorfib 1]

I agree with Scandanavian..however, isn't the little switch below the power levers (the 'throttle', the ones with the reverse)..that little switch clicks left than right, isn't it labeled "un-feather"?So after hitting the engine off switch and putting the levers in full reverse- which sets them on the stop locks. When you go to start you click that switch..if you look out the window you will actually see the prop blades moving into a 'neutral' position. Than you can do your engine start.But also as someone mentioned, if you do this and than wait a few mins, they do seem to leave that neutral 'start' position.My procedure..once I have everything set up and and I am ready to start, I pull my levers back to the full reverse again click that switch both directions, pan out the left window and watch the props until they stop moving (it is kinda hard to see, but you will see it)..Now I start my engines.This has prevented me from having aborted starts and having to wait 20mins for the engine to cool off (which seems to take too long? is that realistic?)I know this may be slightly different in procedure from the real thing, but it works well with the PMDG-J41 :)edit - couldn't spell 'reverse' looh one more thing - don't forget to push the levers up out of reverse into the start range as well (although I have forgotten to do this and the engines started)

[jdkirk904 1]

Stop the engines using the stop switches on the overhead. Do not use the feather locks to set the condition levers to off/feather unless it is an in-flight emergency (one of the 457 reasons I mentioned above to not pay attention to the crap posted on YouTube).Go to the overhead panel and hit STOP, and the engines will spool down. As the RPM drops, put the power levers in the reverse range to set them on the locks. Feather should never even cross your mind. Don't look for anything called feather, don't think about feather, and don't move the condition levers rearward of the TAXI position. This is not a Cessna, or a King Air for that matter.If you're looking for a better procedure reference, please try the tutorial.

Like Scandinavian13 said, but I make sure the rpms drop to below 50 and then I put the props in reverse and take them out before 10. Since doing that, I have never had a problem.

[Houghton11 12]

I agree with Scandanavian..however, isn't the little switch below the power levers (the 'throttle', the ones with the reverse)..that little switch clicks left than right, isn't it labeled "un-feather"?So after hitting the engine off switch and putting the levers in full reverse- which sets them on the stop locks. When you go to start you click that switch..if you look out the window you will actually see the prop blades moving into a 'neutral' position. Than you can do your engine start.But also as someone mentioned, if you do this and than wait a few mins, they do seem to leave that neutral 'start' position.My procedure..once I have everything set up and and I am ready to start, I pull my levers back to the full reverse again click that switch both directions, pan out the left window and watch the props until they stop moving (it is kinda hard to see, but you will see it)..Now I start my engines.This has prevented me from having aborted starts and having to wait 20mins for the engine to cool off (which seems to take too long? is that realistic?)I know this may be slightly different in procedure from the real thing, but it works well with the PMDG-J41 :)edit - couldn't spell 'reverse' looh one more thing - don't forget to push the levers up out of reverse into the start range as well (although I have forgotten to do this and the engines started)

Quick reply,Like everyone has said...the correct method to shut down the engine is with the Engine Stop push-button's on the overhead. The only time you should even think about bringing the condition levers back beyond "taxi" is an fire or engine failure in flight.The "Unfeather Pump" can be used to place the Props to the 0 or 'neutral' pitch. Throw your power levers a bit toward reverse and pump em' back. You need them in reverse to open up the port in the Beta Tube which will allow pressure to flow into the hub driving the props into a fine pitch. Neat little tidbit...and i'm not sure how it is on the 331 varaints on the JS41...but you typically have to motor the engine after using an unfeathering pump. This is because the pump draws oil from the engine oil reservoir and without the engine spinning, there's no way to scavenge the oil back into the reservoir...so you don't want it to be dry the next time somebody tries to start! Isn't really an operational issue, but if maintenance bums are continually running the pump for some maintenance task..it is a biggy.Another little operational tibit (which I think is included in the manual) is that the unfeather pump really isn't meant be used all the time, as it requires somebody to listen for the distinctive clink as the centrifugal latches lock beyond the ramp that holds the prop in a fine pitch inside the propeller hub. It is quite handy though as no matter what I do in FSX...the props are never on the latches when I boot up the J41 ;).The TPE331's I'm familiar with (TPE331-43's in a Commander 680W) doesn't even have a provision for an unfeathering pump...few Garret's actually do...so it's sort of a luxury really. The only options we have is spin the propeller/powerplant with the starter and a GPU (you'll kill the battery trying to motor the prop long enough to get it to fine), or get the 'blade paddles' out and move the prop by hand. If you work at a field frequented by Garrett's, a set of blade paddles will do wonders for your beer quota! (haha those pilots some times...)As for the cooling issue, yes...Garrett's are notorious for the heat they produce. Heck, if you have a tail wind when starting these bad-boys be prepared for a hot start. These engine's run balls to the wall all the time...and on hot summer days i've seen the 331 get only 3 or 4 degrees below max EGT during start...So yes, it is an operational consideration, and a typical rule of thumb is 15 to 20 minutes between starts. On the -43's...if we see less than 150ish degrees on the EGT...it's probably safe to give it a whirl. I think in the J41 it mentions less than 250 somewhere. The important thing is not only the temperatures of the materials and metals, but also all the associated fluids going through the engine...and it's mighty tough to measure how much the fluids have cooled off inside the engine...hence the 15-20 minute rule of thumb. You can help by getting the FO or rampy to get out there and spin the prop a bunch; draw some cool air in and get cool the powerplant down...or you can motor the starter too if you're up for it.It was a big issue with the older 331's with not the fanciest of materials...The main shaft would actually droop from the heat and stationary position after a shut down...do it was a big deal to get out there and try and get some cool air flowing through them.So little guide for the JS41:Boot up JS41Condition lever's taxiBring props in reverse, engage un feathering pump (Left and Right)Verify props fineFuel Boost Pumps onStarter Master appropriate enginePush Start Push ButtonWatch the magic of auto start (or use the manual system included too!)Go flying (etc)Now on groundCondition levers taxiPush appropriate engine Stop Push ButtonAs RPM nears 50% (spooling down), dump that powerplant's power lever into reverse.Repeat for other engine.Props on locks. Engine off...all is good.These steps along with all the other items as well of course.Tada.Hopefully this helps!Patrick H

[bsavo 0]

Hi Guys, i'm back for more punishment. What I mean is this is a FSX world with different computers and different set ups. So what is standard operational procedure for mostdoes not work for everyone. No surprise right. Anyway, I have tried to play around with different set ups. Saving flights with the cockpit cold and dark, shutting down with the prop in feather lock. Etc.The bottom line is this plane just wont start without the prop feathered. Period. My plane does not feather at the same rate about 6 to 10 seconds as the videos show. Mine feather sometimes,one left side might feather and the right wont. I might have to hit the unfeather switch five or six times and hope it works. For me a flight at this point is. Quick captain,hit the fuel pumps on number 1 the prop is feathered. We will worry about everything else later. Or shut down 1 engine, two wont feather, abort startup on two. So this is my problem.. I need a way to feather that may not be normal procedure. I can get the plane started once in a awhile. But no consistency. Any thoughts on this one would be great. I love that PMDG went to all this work to try to make a realistic plane. It looks great. I would love to follow procedurebut that isnt happening. Is there a way, a short cut for feathering or something like that? Bob Savo

[scandinavian13 5,192]

They shouldn't feather. They should unfeather. Again, feather should never cross your mind unless it's an emergency.Load the default Cessna. Shut it down. Load the J41. When it first loads, hit F2 to set the locks (you should head the engines cutting as it loads). From there, go about it as normal. Don't load any "panel saves" or saved flights.

[bsavo 0]

Good news! I got the pumps to work normally, so I was able to unfeather the props. the only change that I did was not to hook up to the external power supply. I put the throttle in fullreverse as I did before, hit the unfeather switch and it acted as it should. the props rotated in about 5 seconds. WoW! Then I added the external power supply and the props stayed in there properposition. Before the first thing I would do was connent to the external power supply do a run through , then set the props, or try to set the props anyway. Got my flight in and all went well. Thanks for the support. Happy Flying Guys. Bob Savo