My first IVAO flight, did ehm... not go so well...

[ArjenVdv 190]

Finally decided to really get started online, this time on IVAO. I was planning a flight from EDDM to EHAM. Planning went ok. I do not have a headset, but the controller of Munich was talking to me and I could here him. He was quite hard to understand, lol. He told me to take the INPUD1S SID, and I had to take off from runway 26R. That's where the trouble started. I chose INPUD1S in the FMC, and it turned out that that SID belongs to 26L instead of 26R. So I requested pushback, and thought, that I had to go to 26L because I had to do the INPUD1S SID. Then after pushback was completed the controller told me that I was faced in the wrong direction. Then I got really confused. Then I asked again which runway, and then he told me 26R again, telling me a lot of taxiways. I can't remember that whole list of taxiways! So I made a 180, then I found out I forgot to print my ground charts, *facepalm*. So I parked my aircraft in the middle of some taxiway, printed my charts and asked the taxi route again. I had to go to taxiway N first. Getting my ground charts with me, finding N on the chart, then figure out where I am. Finally I knew where to go. In the end I succesfully made it to the runway via N and A13. I took off succesfully and switched to UNICOM.OMG, this was so much harder than I expected, and I don't even have a headset yet! Controllers which can be hard to understand, remembering all those taxiways he named. And then the controller makes a mistake too! Assigning me 26R with the INPUD1S SID, while actually 26R should be INPUD1N. This created a lot of misunderstandings and miscommunitions. And I had to ask to say some things again several times. I told him in the beginning that it was my first flight on IVAO, he said "no problem, sir.", but still, I felt like a big noob! While actually I perfectly know how to operate and land the NGX! Communicating with ATC makes aviation so much harder, but also this is a good way to learn for me. If you have any tips, you're welcome.Thanks!

[tfm 193]

Sounds like a good start, actually. You already know what to do better next time (make a written note of ATC instructions, get a headset, print the charts). My only suggestion is that once you've got the headset you'll find it easier to clarify ATC instructions: on readback of the INPUD1S departure (or when you spotted it, if later) you could have said "INPUD1S flies from 26L not 26R: please confirm runway and departure".Tim

[jc_150 3]

Hi Arjen Although my online flying is with Vatsim, everyones first flight is difficult. If it was easy then you would never improve, its the same for everyone. Also it seems you were made welcome on IVAO for your first flight and that is how it should be. A great experience for all levels of experience. When you get your headset I would try for a USB one then you can configure it for getting just ATC from the headset and Plane noise from the speakers, this will make understanding ATC much better. Also remember if you had difficulty understanding ATC, because of language then he/she would have just as much difficulty understanding you. Another tip is to have a pen and paper handy, do not try and remember all those taxiways, jot them down as you are told them, and you will sound more professional when you read them back., Finally online flying is so good because all humans can makle mistakes, and it is the community of different people that makes it so enjoyable, so enjoy your flights, never blame anyone for errors and evryone has a great time.RegardsJohn Calleja (armchair pilot)

[ICMC 1]

HiMaybe some info from myself who uses VATSim.What I have done is I made an Excel spreadsheet. At the top I have in the coloumn things likeWind Speed Course or Heading Frequency Speed Altitude Taxi etcbelow I can write in what ATC tell me to do and do a read back to confirm which is actually a myst to confirm you understood on VATSim.So that can help.Thx Ian

Hi Arjen Although my online flying is with Vatsim, everyones first flight is difficult. If it was easy then you would never improve, its the same for everyone. Also it seems you were made welcome on IVAO for your first flight and that is how it should be. A great experience for all levels of experience. When you get your headset I would try for a USB one then you can configure it for getting just ATC from the headset and Plane noise from the speakers, this will make understanding ATC much better. Also remember if you had difficulty understanding ATC, because of language then he/she would have just as much difficulty understanding you. Another tip is to have a pen and paper handy, do not try and remember all those taxiways, jot them down as you are told them, and you will sound more professional when you read them back., Finally online flying is so good because all humans can makle mistakes, and it is the community of different people that makes it so enjoyable, so enjoy your flights, never blame anyone for errors and evryone has a great time.RegardsJohn Calleja (armchair pilot)

Well said+1

[ArjenVdv 190]

Thanks guys for the tips. I will also try VATSIM for US flights. I have tried it before, but, perhaps it's me, but even at big airports like KJFK, KLAX, there were no frequencies avaibable. Maybe one or two, but not assosiated with the airports. Perhaps that's because everyone in the US is now asleep or something?

[adamdaniel 1]

Hi,Couple of things that might help from my experiences with IVAO;- Join a VA as they often have training and tick lists - (FLY UK is the one I use)- Use something like FS Commander to pre load weather, IVAO users, plan the routes, SID/STARs etc.. Also, you may find Nav NDAC3, although its oftern not up to date for charts.- IVOA eye gives you the ATIS which oftenm lets you have the runways in use, etc.. so you can pre plan safely at the gate.- In the remarks section I always now put something like RMK/Request SID rwy 09 bofin1a, obviously code accordingly ;-)- Learnt the above after I decided in your situation to go with the IVAO world tour as a rookie (a top learning experience) - Leant the above trick in S Amercia - Tell ATC what you want. Most of the time you will get it and if you don't you are at the gate to amend. (Tip: Pre plan everything you want)- Remember controllers are like pilots, new, old, experienced, & rookies..and don't worry you will soon be asking a busy controller at EHAM to practice a missed approach on busy night , he'll refuse and you go missed away.Enjoy, it definately gets better and easier - Pre plan everything...RegardsAdam RogersonUKV1666Fly UK

[Meese 5]

Thanks guys for the tips. I will also try VATSIM for US flights. I have tried it before, but, perhaps it's me, but even at big airports like KJFK, KLAX, there were no frequencies avaibable. Maybe one or two, but not assosiated with the airports. Perhaps that's because everyone in the US is now asleep or something?

Yeah, since all manned airports are based on people actually manning them for fun and not for a living, no community is manned 24/7, or even 7 days a week for that matter. My experience is also with VATSIM (C1, SUP and Pilot), but as you're saying, basically the US will be dead when Europe is active, and vice versa. Timezone's the ones to blame for that, because when us over here are buckeling in our sim after a good dinner, the US is still at their jobs and schools.On IVAO I believe controllers don't need any training to man Towers or Ground position (They do on VATSIM, but I'm not going to start another tiering VATSIM vs IVAO debate here), so this might be the reason you got confusing runway/SID, or maybe it was something completely different that caused it.In any case of online flying, there's one thing you can do that above all else will prepare you for your first and second and third flight. The pre-flight. Check the weather reports, listen in on the ATIS (given one is present), and make sure that you got charts available either on screen or on paper. Maybe most importantly, get the groundchart(s) and review it before you request any taxi. By listening to the ATIS, you'll know what/which runway(s) you can expect for departure, then you use this information along with your stand number to plot out the shortest and most logical taxi route to the appropriate runway(s). Also look at adjacent and paralell taxiways, as whatever route you believe you'll get may vary somewhat. When you've done this a few times, you'll pretty much be able to look a few seconds at a ground chart of any airport, and then understand your taxi instructions, but the first times you're probably going to need some time before and after the taxi clearence.Overall, just make sure that you're prepared, and that you to your best ability have considered likely actions and their options, and you'll soon be a very capable online flyer :)Happy flying!

[Paul Deemer 13]

One of the coolest things about FS Commander 9 is you can zoom into the airport your currently at. Then you logon to Vatsim or IVAO with FS Commander and you can see your position at the airport. All the taxiways are clearly marked and you can easily navigate to the runway using atc instructions.If you cannot understand the controllers ask to use Text Only which is what I do because I am deaf. Not sure on IVAO but on VATSIM all controllers are required to understand basic english.

[rocketfs 2]

Arjen,I've flown on IVAO quite a lot. It's so much different than flying offline. You are about to learn a lot.-You need a good headset for sure.-Maybe start flying between more quite airports. "ATC-talking speed" is generally slower there.-Take your time to sit back and listen to different ATC channels as an observer."I thought" = I assumed.--> never ASSUME: it makes an &@($* oUt of you and MEIf you are not 100% sure --> just ask."remembering all those taxiways he named"Always have pen and paperavailable and write it down. Even in real life it's done"I felt like a big noob"That's because in fact you are!! :)Wait untill you do your first exam: that will make you sweat! :)Bert Van Bulck

[bakaman 28]

Finally decided to really get started online, this time on IVAO. I was planning a flight from EDDM to EHAM. Planning went ok. I do not have a headset, but the controller of Munich was talking to me and I could here him. He was quite hard to understand, lol. He told me to take the INPUD1S SID, and I had to take off from runway 26R. That's where the trouble started. I chose INPUD1S in the FMC, and it turned out that that SID belongs to 26L instead of 26R. So I requested pushback, and thought, that I had to go to 26L because I had to do the INPUD1S SID. Then after pushback was completed the controller told me that I was faced in the wrong direction. Then I got really confused. Then I asked again which runway, and then he told me 26R again, telling me a lot of taxiways. I can't remember that whole list of taxiways! So I made a 180, then I found out I forgot to print my ground charts, *facepalm*. So I parked my aircraft in the middle of some taxiway, printed my charts and asked the taxi route again. I had to go to taxiway N first. Getting my ground charts with me, finding N on the chart, then figure out where I am. Finally I knew where to go. In the end I succesfully made it to the runway via N and A13. I took off succesfully and switched to UNICOM.OMG, this was so much harder than I expected, and I don't even have a headset yet! Controllers which can be hard to understand, remembering all those taxiways he named. And then the controller makes a mistake too! Assigning me 26R with the INPUD1S SID, while actually 26R should be INPUD1N. This created a lot of misunderstandings and miscommunitions. And I had to ask to say some things again several times.I told him in the beginning that it was my first flight on IVAO, he said "no problem, sir.", but still, I felt like a big noob! While actually I perfectly know how to operate and land the NGX! Communicating with ATC makes aviation so much harder, but also this is a good way to learn for me.If you have any tips, you're welcome.Thanks!

Arjen,I fly on IVAO too, because in my opinion the network is better than VATSIM and i feel like i know everybody when i'm online. As a general rule controllers are very professional and kind but you may fly in some areas where some people controlling (calling themselves controllers) are a bit "aggressive", or speak way way too fast with a very poor accent, i mean you got a whole lot of non professional guys out there, the thing is to do a good preparation of your flight: I had an instructor saying: a well prepared navigation is a successful one! Just keep that in mind, and you'll be able to guess a lot of instructions even before the controller calls you. My Father told me this one day: He was the captain on an Air Afrique regular flight from Abidjan to JFK on a DC-10, after landing he could not understand the GND instructions and he asked more than 3 times, because the controller was speaking with a crazy accent (from Texas he said). So he put the Parking brakes on, ask for 2 coffees and requested for another interlocutor on the radio.The guy on the radio did not want to speak a bit slower etc... : The thing is my father had a very good knowledge of jfk but he just wanted the correct instructions. No disrespect to my people from texas here! LOL! Anyway I invite you to join me on my daily flights on IVAO with the NGX. PM me if you wish.Cheers

[ArjenVdv 190]

Just did my second IVAO flight, from LOWW to EHRD. Already went a lot better. There were some inconviences again though... I was again a little nervous. In the beginning I asked LOWW_DEL (this is clearence delivery correct?), for IFR clearence via a text message. I heard the controller talking to other aircraft but I didn't get any response. He probably didn't see my text message and I have not headset yet. After requesting 3 times, I just decided to pushback myself. Then he said "Transavia 5862, you do not have clearence yet". So I wrote another text message requesting IFR again, and now he responded normally. I got clearence for departing MOTIX1C from RW29. I got handed off to GND, this time I had my ground charts prepared and studied them a little before, so taxing to the runway was no problem. Then I got handed off to TWR, took off normally. Then I got a yellow warning light on panel in front of me. After a few minutes I figured out I forgot to close the front left cabin door! *facepalm*. Never forget this normally, missed that point on my checklist I guess. But anyway, I closed the door in mid air, had to manually adjust cabin temps. In the end warning light disappaered and no problems. I got handed off to Vienna Radar, then Munich Radar, then UNICOM. In then end when coming in for approach at Rotterdam EHRD, no controllers were available but still kept transmitting messages on UNICOM. I touched down perfectly with -50 fpm. Vacated the runway, and taxied to gate D3. This already went a lot better then my first flight. I guess after around 10 flights I will be comfortable with everything. Just a few question about IVAO:1. As what aircraft do the controllers see me? I have set B738 in my flightplan, but in the MTL section I could only choose between a Dash 8 and LJ45. Where can I download all other MTL models and liveries so that the controllers actually see me as a B738?2. Can I use AI traffic when online on IVAO? I currently don't have UT2, but I'm thinking about buying it. It's great programm, but doesn't the AI traffic disappear when going onto IVAO?Thanks.P.S. And yes bakaman, that would be great I'll send you a PM.@rocketfs. When and how can I do exams (in the future)?

[bakaman 28]

Arjen,Alright here are the answers:1- when installing IVAO, you should have a line named "MTL installer Updater" in the Start MENU: Very easy, Start then All programs then IVAO then MTL installer updater: run it in administrator mode and choose the FULL installation. Don't worry the installation may take more than 40 to 45 mins to get all the liveries installed. Once you got your Library up to date, very easy, when you got fsx loaded and launched IVAP for connection you have to choose your airline and aircraft type, choose your call sign, the server, and thats it. Don't forget to send your flight plan.2- Ivao or UT2 : you can only run one at the time. online flying or UT2 you have to choose. Anyway, you can install UT2 and that way when you want to fly offline you can use your UT2 software: pretty cool! thats what i do. Once you got UT2 installed, i'll tell you what to do, but nothing complicated here, just disable traffic in UT2.3- check your mailbox!!!Cheers

[JetNoise 0]

Remember the 7 "P" s of flying ;-)Proper pre- flight planning prevents pi.ss poor performance.Means: put youself on an airport, listen, get the atis, plan, fly , enjoy !! LEARNOliver

[Sekstifire 10]

... In then end when coming in for approach at Rotterdam EHRD, no controllers were available but still kept transmitting messages on UNICOM....

A couple of quick hints when it comes to unicom1: If there's no traffic in close vicinity you are not required to transmit on unicom, infact, you are discouraged to transmit on unicom.2: When you transmit on UNICOM make sure that what you say makes sense to people who are unfamiliar. For example, "KJFK traffic, at FL290, descending on CAMRN4 to cross CAMRN at 11 000" is not a very good message. Nobody except the pilots who are very familiar with the area knows where the CAMRN4 arrival goes, where the CAMRN waypoint is and not only that, its generally too far away from KJFK to be very useful to the other pilots going to JFK. A more appropriate transmission could be "KJFK traffic, about 20nm west at 4000, planning ILS4R, will call when turning final". In the last example the other pilots do not need to have a great amount of experience and knowledge about the airspace you fly in. It should be obvious to everybody in the JFK area where your plane is.

[Meese 5]

Two things. Firstly, when you're on a network such as IVAO or VATSIM, once you're inside controlled airspace or on a controlled aerodrome, you're not allowed to push/start (some few exceptions on this one, f.ex is all the push/start areas at JFK considered "Ramp" and is not controlled by ATC, I don't know however if the IVAO-guys actually abides by this), taxi or take off without a clearence for it. Neither are you to do any unapproved direct-routings or stepclimbs, or even descend when you're at TOD, without a clearence once airborne.Secondly, the greatest nightmare of anyone controlling on VATSIM or IVAO is the new guys who copy back the instructions, but does not understand them and thus executes something completely different instead. They do this of course, because they are affraid to ask or simply state "unable", which we all understand of course (Online communities are scary places ) . So one of the most important things you'll have to learn while introducing yourself to the online sim-world, is that the kindest (to the controller) and smartest thing of all you can do as a "newbie" is to inform a controller that you do not understand, or are unable to execute any instructions in which case it is true. If you're in a busy airspace and you start doing the funky chicken all over the place, you'll make people stressed. Picture yourself as ATC, stacking a perfect line into JFK, and then one guy comes in and ruins it all, smacking five-six other planes on his way. Of course, we do show lenience with the new guys, and help them out whenever and however we can, but it's very important for the new guys to understand that to recieve help, they will have to ask for it ;) Just my fifty cent, I tell this in one version or another to every new guy I encounter, and I always tro to emphasise how important it is.