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rafazm

Problems flying stars

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HELLO!!!

 

I can't fly stars with radar contact. The approach contact (and rwy assignment) is too late (after star's first point).

 

For example the arrivals to Málaga (LEMG) is runway specific. The first point of the star (if for example you are flying from Madrid, LEMD) is VULPE that is 69 NM from LEMG. There isn't common nearest points in the two posibles VULPE stars (rwy 31 and rwy 13). In the real life, the pilots contact with approach controller (118.45) in the begining of the star (before VULPE) and the controller give information to the pilots about the rwy in use.

 

But we suppose that i know the rwy in use. While i am flying the star procedure (remember I don't contact still with approach controller) the route controller give me an initial vector (?¿?¿) that breaks completely my star and all final procedure. When i contact with approach controller is imposible continue flying the star (i am in middle of nothing) and iap option is useless.

 

A posible solution to this problem is that RC can known the initial point or fix of an STAR procedure and allow you flying without vectors. (except for traffic separation).

 

Any help here????

 

Thanks.

 

PD: Sorry for my english. Spanish man :P

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the manual covers flying stars.

 

stars end when you contact approach

 

if you want to fly an instrument approach, ask for an iap approach when you contact approach

 

jd

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Thank you for your fast answer sir.

 

Yes, I have read the manual but it don't solve my questions.

 

 

 

1.- In LEMG there is two STAR procedure for North arrivals: VULPE1K if rwy 12/13 is in use and VULPE1J if rwy 31 is in use.

Then i need to know the rwy in use before the initial point of the STAR (in this case the fix VULPE). But in RC isn't possible because VULPE fix is at 60 NM from the airport.

 

 

STAR rwy 31

STAR rwy 12/13

 

2.- If you see the star VULPE1J (rwy31 in use) is like a LEFT downwind to the 31 runway and END in the fix ETROV (IAF, initial approach point). The .pln that i load in RC include all the points of the STAR. But when i contact with approach, the PREVIOUS controller vectored me to a point in the RIGHT downwind of rwy 31 (?¿?¿). From this point i can't do the published approach. In other words, when i contact approach i'm in the another side of the airport.

The question is: ¿Why the ON ROUTE controller give vectors to me if i'm flying the plan load in RC? Then when i contact with approach i'm OUT of my flight plan.

 

Thanks in advance SIR.

 

Excuse my poor english. Is difficult explain this for me in english.

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See if this helps:

Vulpe1J and 1K do have some common waypoints. For 12/13 Kakes you to IAF OMIGO. For 31 K the next waypoint is MAR which just happens to be on the same heading from VULPE if you pass through OMIGO. I would put the longer VULPE J waypionts in the plan to ETROV but also include passing through OMIGO. Then whatever runway is assigned let RC break you away with vectors. In this case the paths are overlaid with IAF OMIGO in the path to IAF ETROV. It shows up more clearly on the ILS 12/13 and ILS 31 charts where I noticed the paths were overlaid.

 

For 12/13 RC would consider almost a straight in approach setup for you and take you to MAR turning you intercept the ILS. Include MAR in the plan to cover both all approaches.

 

The ILS12 and ILS13 show going to MAR after IAF OMIGO. If going to 31 that round about path takes you through MAR anyway.. In other words effectively MAR can be the IAF for 12/13.

 

Approach will contact you after MAR when you get to short of 40 nm out and by that time it should be a straight in for 12/13.

 

On the 12/13 STAR you can see the runways are in line with MAR (which follows the IAF in the 12/13 ILS charts).

 

If you want use NOTAMS to gain flexibility. You'll be on center just past MAR either way. You'll also have either way the crossing restriction above the minimums shown on the STAR at either FL120 or FL110, but you'll have about 30 nm to descend for 12/13 and more for 31.

 

For 31 RC would give you a downwind but to be sure you could elect the IAP for 31 so it doesn't give you a downwind to 31 on the wrong side.

 

Here would be the waypoints to put in order in the plan file for RC to accommodate all::

VULPE

OMIGO

MAR

KURET

ETROV

 

So approach will contact you after MAR and then you could IAP to any or take vectors to 12/13 or IAP to 31. It would be "fun" to take vectors to 31 to see if you get the right downwind (south side of the runways) for a bse entry to 31.

 

Let me know.

 

(The links you provided were the same. I pulled the charts from Eurocontrol.)


Ron Ginsberg
KMSP Minnesota, Land of 10,000 Puddles
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Support Team

 

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Thank you very much Ronzie!! A great answer.

I will try it in my next flight and of course I let you Know.

 

PS: My mistake in the links. This is the correct link STAR rwy 31

 

Thanks one more time!

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Well. I've flown to malaga, barcelona, marsella... with your tips in flight planning and...perfect. No problems, no annoying vectors previous to contact approach all perfect. Thank you very much for the support sir :P .

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