After quite a few years flying GA a/c in the Sim and starting to tire of it, I have recently started to TRY to fly the helos. Well flying them is easy enough-- but landing them is difficult, landing them where I want to is almost impossible and hovering before landing is -----, well, where is my old Age of Empires game that I used to like so much??I thought Simming was supposed to be fun? :)And please don't tell me it just takes practice. :( Oh well, maybe I have to go back to the easy GA and even easier Heavy metal. Barry

Hi Barry,Well, you won't get too much disagreement from me. Helos are pretty tough to lnad, at least with all your realism settings turned up. You could try turning them down. There is one in particular that will make it easier I think. I forget what's is called atm though, prop torque? Anyway, I leave my realism settings turned up. I don't fly helos real often, so I have to practice, practice, practice when I do! :-lol Then after a while I get much better.I will also say this, IMO it depends on what helo you are trying to fly/land. What helo's have you tried? They have differing flight models, just like the aircrafts in Flight Simulator. And without a doubt, I have found the Robinson R22 to be one of the easier helos to fly and land. I think it's quite tame compared to a lot of other helos! How about giving it a try and let me know what you think of it?Cheerio,Jim

Hmmm, well, they're hard to fly in real life also. Won't get any argument here. BUT, I did find a way to enjoy flying heli's more. I DLed one of the installable HUDs which I found somewhere. Then after installing I started testing. I found that if I just "W"ed enough to clear off the screen and then put up just the HUD I was getting along much easier. It helped that I ran into a friend online and he gave a couple pointers. One is to move controls gingerly so as not to disturb the equilibrium. I found an Apache on Hovercontrol and it has a HUD. I sorta like flying it. Flew over the Himalaya's with it. :D

First of all, I always fly helicopters from the chase view. I cannot get a good feeling of my altitude and position from the 2D panel or VC - although zooming out the VC to 50% helps.In the past I used to move the realism slider down when flying a helo, but I always forgot to move it up again and then other planes felt strange ;) With FS9's Robinson it's really not that hard, this one is so tame that it's slowly getting boring to me. The Bell 206 is exactly the opposite, absolutely frustrating at the beginning, but I'm getting better.For me it's really a matter of concentration flying the 206, but when I have a good day it's really satisfying. Small movements of the stick are very important, as is anticipating where this beast will turn to next, and compensating very quickly and smoothly.Just my 2c (EUR),VOlker :]

Barry,Check out the following site:http://members.shaw.ca/hoversafe/Hoversafe.htmDownload and read through the lessons. They're very helpful. Also, note their comments on the realism settings... They have a real world helicopter pilot on staff, and they say that moving the realism slider full right is unrealistically unstable. They recommend one click down from full right as most real-world like.I'm a real world fixed-wing pilot, so I feel qualified to judge airplane flight models for myself, but I'm willing to trust them on helicopters!Ken

I recommend basically every helecopter at this site:www.hovercontrol.comAnd turn the general realism slider down 1 or 2 notches, supposedly you need to otherwise the helecopters freak out (a bug with the game I guess)you'll notice they're easier to land but still very difficult if you pull back too high. Very cool though, I'm back into my jumbo mood but usually hop in a hughes 500d or dolphin

Also set controller null zone to zero on all axes, and use a high sensitivity. Helos are flown with very little movement of the stick (or cyclic), and just a slight pressure should get you in the direction you want.- Oyvind

One other tip on landing is to try to keep some forward speed (2 or 3 kts) until touchdown. I usually set some winds when flying copters--it is so rare you fly in a dead calm. And, it is easier to land and hover with some forward airspeed, offset by the windspeed.-John

>Barry,>>Check out the following site:>http://members.shaw.ca/hoversafe/Hoversafe.htmyes -- I have been using these lessons and enjoyed the early ones and found them very useful. But the only problem is that they seem to have been recorded by FS2002 and I use Fs2004. So I get LOTS of vibration and jumpiness and the torque gauge seems to stay put at one setting regardless of what the a/c is doing. One thing I have just re-discovered is the standard default horizon indicator -- the BIG one. You know, the v-bar that sits on the horizon . I have never used it because I always thought it was an insult to my intelligence when flying GA and didn't need to have it displayed. But last night I used it with the Bell 206 and, with a little concentration using this device , I started to hover in one spot.Practice, practice, practice.Barry

I have to warn you; once you get the hang of flying helicopters, you won't want to fly anything else for a long time.

>>yes -- I have been using these lessons and enjoyed the early ones and found them very useful. But the only problem is that they seem to have been recorded by FS2002 and I use Fs2004. So I get LOTS of vibration and jumpiness and the torque gauge seems to stay put at one setting regardless of what the a/c is doing.<

The full real settings are not realistic in FS, at least per "pros" that have commented on it.I use 1 click to the left of full real on the general slider. Everything else full real. The helos are a challenge, but also feel a bit more realistic. No one could fly a helo if it handled like full real in FS! :)

agreed! for a month or so my roomate and I were sidetracked with flying helecopters. So much fun!>I have to warn you; once you get the hang of flying>helicopters, you won't want to fly anything else for a long>time.

I thought I'd throw my $.02 in this, particularly since I was a Helo CFI...1) I tried the helos in FS one time and gave up. Nothing like the real thing. Even with a FF controller, you don't get the 'feel' needed to precisely hover. Even in a low inertia system, there is weight and momentum in the rotor system and you're moving that weight when you pressure the cyclic. It creates a sense of feel that just isn't there in the desktop sims we use. 2) A few pointers from the real thing...Hover is like balancing on a beach ball. Just think about it and you're moving in that direction. Even in the dead of summer, I flew with a glove on my cyclic hand. It dampened out some of the hand motion. You might try that in the sim.3) As new helo students do in the real aircraft, when simming we tend to focus very close in and often times, 'right between our virtual feet'. Move your focus further out. The closer in you focus, the more exacerbated even the smallest of movement appears. That leads to over-controlling. As a demo of this, use the slew function of FS, zoom in as far as you can go, and try to 'hover' by slewing the helo directly and exactly over a fixed point, like a runway light or taxisign. Then zoom out a click or two. Which one was easier and more precise? 4) I don't recommend touching down with any forward momentum. Two reasons: a) if it's a soft surface, the skids will dig in toe-first and try to flip you. Even in a full autorotation to the ground you want to zero out forward motion prior to touchdown. Note I said forward motion. Not necessarily airspeed. Wind does play a factor. You don't want to be backing up when you touchdown either. Digging the heels into the turf has different but equally as bad results as digging the toes in. The only time you want a run-on landing is with a jammed tail rotor or if DA won't permit a hover. :( In a multi-bladed helo (meaning 3 or more blades), touchdown with any forward momentum can induce ground resonance. And if you don't promptly recover from that,...well, let's just say not pretty...But I suspect even the most advanced FS flight models don't simulate resonance so it may not be a big deal.5) I can't attest to the FS flight models because, like I said one time and I gave up, but in the RW, a high ineria system (like the Huey/Bell 4xx/Apache/S-76) are infinitely easier to hand fly than a low inertia system (Hughes 500, TH-55, etc). If you're having problems with that, try one of the high inertia models.6) The biggest thing that would help simming would be if you can scrape up the money, go find a helo school nearby and get a little stick time in the real thing... You don't have to start flight training, just get 30 - 40 minutes. You, an instructor and a wide open 80 acre field...

Compared to the real thing, the FS helos aren't sensitive enough to fly well. Oddly enough, the R22 in real life in a tough helo to fly- The cyclic shakes all over the place, and I've seen a guy almost nose dive it into the ground after getting out of a Hughes 500. In FS, it is actually EASIER to fly because it is more sensitive to cyclic input. I've never flown a Jet Ranger, but my best friend was a helo pilot (Westpoint class of '96) and said the FS version is not nearly sensitive enough. BTW, I'm not a rated helo pilot, just a "tag" along, who's taken the stick a few times, and I fly R/C helicopters. I actually found X-Plane is MUCH more realistic.Having said that, I can fly the FS helis all over the place- hover to forward flight, transition back to hover, hover taxi and land. The number one rule that I've heard is to stay ahead of the ship- You need to counter the movements before they even happen. It took me 250+ hours of sim practice before I could fly an R/C helicopter in forward flight and get it back in one piece. Now it's second nature- I can even hover inverted. But it takes more than practice- you have to understand WHY it's doing what it's doing. This usually means you have to undo a lot of bad habits as well. Good luck- It is really fun to look at a spot in the virtual world and land there without needing a runway.