Tutorial #2 FMC entry

[Mepshtain 0]

Hi

 

I tried following tutorial #2 to the word and got some differences between those that described in the tutorial and what I got. I am using AIRAC 1207 and that might explain some differences (like having a new waypoint named PIGAB between ELMOX and DKB ) but does AIRAC explain new waypoints in the final approach to LOWI (OEV19 and OEN17 instead of OEV18 and OEV16 with new heights) ?

 

After I entered all the waypoints and went into the first LEGS screen I see in the tutorial that I should have seen height restriction of 6000 ft at IVLUT but on my FMC I see no restriction.

 

And finally and more important I see route discontinuity after RW26 which I cannot eliminate that does not appear in the tutorial (page 30 )

 

At this point I also see that I do have only 8 pages of LEGS instead of 9 in the tutorial

 

I understand that the part after RW26 is probably the MISSED APPROACH, should it say so?

 

Can you look at the screen shots attached and help me fix it?

 

Thanks

 

Moshe

[smike33 0]

I tried following tutorial #2 to the word and got some differences between those that described in the tutorial and what I got. I am using AIRAC 1207 and that might explain some differences (like having a new waypoint named PIGAB between ELMOX and DKB ) but does AIRAC explain new waypoints in the final approach to LOWI (OEV19 and OEN17 instead of OEV18 and OEV16 with new heights) ?

 

This is probably because you selected the LOC/DME EAST procedure, whereas in the tutorial, they fly the SPECIAL LOC/DME EAST. Its very similar, but has specific requirements for aircraft performance and crew training, and has the different DME fixes that you point out.

 

After I entered all the waypoints and went into the first LEGS screen I see in the tutorial that I should have seen height restriction of 6000 ft at IVLUT but on my FMC I see no restriction.

 

Just enter the restriction yourself using the appropriate LSK-R

[Tabs 2,790]

Moshe,

 

Procedures do change in the real world - I made a major note of this at the start of the tutorial saying that things were liable to be different in the future with newer navdata sets. If you want to fly it like the tutorial is written, delete your PMDG/Navdata and PMDG/SIDSTARs folder and re-run the NGX install in Repair mode - it'll put the original 1108 navdata back in and it should appear exactly as it does in the tutorial document.

 

With the 6000 at IVLUT, the current LUNI1S chart indicates that 6000 feet is now an initial climb clearance for the whole SID, not just at IVLUT, so what's in the navdata is now correct. You'd just set the MCP altitude to 6000 and the plane will stop when it reaches it. In real life ATC is going to clear you higher as you get close to 6000 or more likely right after you contact departure after takeoff. For example at KPHX where I'm from, initial climb is 7000 but departure always gives you clearance to FL210 right after you contact them at only 2000 feet or whatever.

 

On the waypoints in the approach, I suspect what happened is that Navigraph is now showing the "Special LOC DME East" procedure - this one has 18.2 and 16 DME fixes, not 19 and 17 like the standard "LOC DME East" does. I'm not sure why Navigraph would have done this, but that's probably the explanation. The tutorial uses the standard one, not the "Special".

 

The discontinuity is there I believe because the chart shows the first part of the missed approach as a "visual procedure", so that's correct as well.

[smike33 0]

Ok yea the procedure must have been updated with different waypoints since the AIRAC cycle used in the tutorial

[Mepshtain 0]

Thank you Ryan

 

Look at thechart herein, it shows that the regular approach uses 18.2 and 16 DME

 

should i just delete the waypoint after RW26 ?

 

Moshe

 

Forgot to put the link

 

http://charts.vacc-austria.org/LOWI/LOWI_Approach_LOC%20DME%20East_01072011.pdf

 

Moshe

[Mepshtain 0]

All

 

 

After downloading the current Navigraph charts i find that the altitude restrictions at IVLUT have been removed and that the LOC/DME EAST and SPECIAL LOC/DME EAST approaches have both changed to D19, D17, D14, D9, D6.3 ,D5 , D4.2, D1, RW24

 

Since i am new with the FMC my question now refers to the the right way to reflect the go aground procedure back to RTT. I understand that due to the fact that D1 appears twice (one before the RW24 and also immediately after the RW24) this cusses the discontinuity. If i remove D1 that is part of visual missed approach and leave only ABNDB and RTT is this the right way to take ?

 

Moshe

[Sekstifire 10]

I dont know about the specific procedure you are talking about, but no, you should not delete waypoints from the procedures stored in the FMC, unless the data in the FMC is incorrect of course. While its true that Navigraphs AIRAC data is inaccurate and contains many flaws, I have never seen it contain a waypoint that was not supposed to be there. I would very highly doubt that your procedure contains a waypoint that doesnt exist in real life. Just double check with the chart, it should be obvious what youre supposed to do. As for a waypoint named D1, it almost certainly stands for 1nm DME, probably from the runway threshold (or possibly from a VOR located at the field)

[Mepshtain 0]

I dont know about the specific procedure you are talking about, but no, you should not delete waypoints from the procedures stored in the FMC, unless the data in the FMC is incorrect of course. While its true that Navigraphs AIRAC data is inaccurate and contains many flaws, I have never seen it contain a waypoint that was not supposed to be there. I would very highly doubt that your procedure contains a waypoint that doesnt exist in real life. Just double check with the chart, it should be obvious what youre supposed to do. As for a waypoint named D1, it almost certainly stands for 1nm DME, probably from the runway threshold (or possibly from a VOR located at the field)

 

The precedure I mentindes is LOC/DNE EAST to Innsbruck runway 26. Which has an instrument approach and avery chalenging miss approach that i have refered to. For some reason the fact that first point of the miss approach D1 ( which i also know that dtands for 1 DME :) is also the last point of the approach cuasses the discontinuity. I have triied to correct. The discontinuity but did not succeed therefor the question was asked.

 

So why not check the procedure ? Generalities did nothelp me.

 

[smike33 0]

The missed approach point (MAP) is actually at OEV 6.3, 5.1, or 3.8 DME, depending on the aircraft climb capability. This is where the missed approach procedure begins. The missed approach procedure then instructs you to continue on the LOC with a best-angle climb until OEV 1.0 DME, at which point you make the tight left turn back onto the LOC outbound. That is the significance of the the OEV 1.0 DME fix...it does not "exist" in the actual approach, only the missed approach procedure.

[Mepshtain 0]

The procedure itself is clear and indeed if you reach the MDA at D6.3 you must start the miss approach to climb to OEV D1 DME , my question is regarding the discontinuity u get after the RW26, should i delete it? how? if i leave it in place do i need to do somting during the miss aproach?

[Fabo 213]

The procedure is non-standart according to current PMDG file format, which normally requires a missed approach procedure to begin after passing over the runway threshold. This is probably why there is a discontinuity (I do not know how this is handled in real aircraft).

 

Solution is to fly it yourself using primary data - DME reading, localizer reading.