I flew to Manchester this evening and coming from the south I decided to use the DAYN2A STAR. I noticed that when I selected the MCT transition for runway 05 (which wasn't the one I had to land on) I got exactly this on the ND:

 

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-E5FD8FA8E14BE4AED936908E8F86DC7B/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/NON_AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGCC_8-2_en_2012-06-28.pdf

 

The FMC programmed the flight straight to MTC and then left to follow the sort of teardrop approach. Nice.

 

However, I had to land on runway 23R though and so I had to follow this procedure:

 

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-E5FD8FA8E14BE4AED936908E8F86DC7B/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/NON_AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGCC_8-10_en_2012-06-28.pdf

 

I loaded the MTC trans for this one too but it looked nothing like this and very odd... Now I have read that the 737NGX FMC doesn't support procedure turns (because the navigraph data doesn't have them) and that's a shame but it would be nice if I could program it anyway in the FMC. As I didn't know how to do this I simply flew straight to MTC and then flew outbound on the 053 radial (using HDG mode). The approach fix that was added in the FMC after loading the runway 23R ILS (by which I mean the far most waypoint that starts with a C and not the one that starts with an F) was somewhere around the point where I should start the procedure turn to 008 (still using HDG mode) and after flying that direction for a while I turned right to 188 and turned on VOR LOC and did the landing.

 

It went well but the LEGS page on the FMC was completely messed up and confused because it thought I had already passed the approach fix... and so was the ND. So it would be very handy if I knew how to enter a procedure turn manually in the FMC...!

 

BTW (OT) Why the heck are those STARs and transitions so different...? Some airports have a STAR that lead me nicely to the runway, others have STARs that leads you to a VOR somewhere out there and it's quite hard to figure out what transition to use. It took me quite a while to figure out I had to use the MCT transition after the DAYN2A STAR: the DAYNE transition did nothing usefull and only led me straight to the airport... And the MCT transition for runway 5 is in fact the official ILS approach... usually transitions lead you to an approach...? Er... very confusing. I wish some flying authority had regulated this a bit better so all airports had similar procedures...

I've always wondered about these types of charts, there is a very simular one at EGJJ. It's a bit like an overhead join where you meet a VOR then fly out bound.

 

I have never been asked to fly this MCT tranistion from vatsim, I userly get asked to fly a heading from DAYNE and that is the end of it, down wind for 23R.

 

When you load it up RWY23 and MCT trans, it looks very scary looking, you'd ethier want to hand fly and use the VOR radials as reference or use the heading select. Must admit I wouldn't fancy putting that in the FMC and slaming on LNAV

Just tried it a minute ago. Into ILS RWY23 . I don't think that tear shaped thing (over MCT) was part of ther procedure. I've noticed SIDs have this fault. And there is no turn on the R053 at 12.3 dme.

Ok, so I am better off flying these approaches NOT by using the FMC but by using HDG, VOR LOC etc... I will experiment with fixes to make things a bit easier: never used those up to now. It's always nice learning and using something new.

Ok, so I am better off flying these approaches NOT by using the FMC but by using HDG, VOR LOC etc...

 

You don't usually see 737s do this sort of proedure, so it is difficult to verify the best flying technique.

 

At Shoreham EGKA there is Diamond Star instrument training and I'm sure they do this kind of Approach all the time. Probably more suited to a light aircraft.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, so I am better off flying these approaches NOT by using the FMC but by using HDG, VOR LOC

 

It is an instrument approach, but not sure how well it would work with the FMC. Certainly the NAV aids would be the main help.

The MCT VOR has DME, which tells you how far you ar meant to fly before doing the turn using the R053, I'm not sure if you have to loc onto it.

This kind of thing is a bit beyond the purpose of the FMC, just do it the old fashioned way. Let the FMC get you to the IAF and then you handle the rest.

Procedure turn is very rare. Do it like real life, fly part of the star them vector yourself to the ils ( pretend ground atc is doing so ) then fly the ils. Flying a star and ils on lnav looks nice but its not realistic. Usually aircraft are vectored for separation, some quieter airports might not need to give many vectors.

 

Check out routes on flighradar24 it's quite interesting to watch.

I've seen approaches where the box has the ProcTurn, and some where it didn't for whatever reason.

 

737s of course do do these approaches whenever there isn't radar or a transition route or STAR.

 

If it's not in the box, then do it with VORLOC and HDG SEL and simply follow the restrictions (eg 10nm).

Hello all,

 

From what I know, procedure turns are not used in radar controlled environment; they are designed to provide adequate separation where pilots have to organize themselves to get to the runway.

 

Should you have to perform this with an FMC equipped aircraft you have to actually do it manually or better yet using manual MCP operation, especially HDG select. Once you have performed the 180 to "come back", you arm the LOC capture anyway if any.

 

Regards,

Ionut "John" Micu

Sometimes the ILS can be is unserviceable, so it is not a waist of time learning a insturment approach.

Just had the same "problem" with the FMC myself from EGKK to EGCC - took the DAYNE2A arrival and it did the same thing, it was either that or the overhead join, so managed to spin it around

and do a manual land. I suppose the next time I'l manually intercept the ILS but I didn't think this had to be done comming in to egcc.

 

Ahh well.