Fatal Mistakes While Landing

[ENergy 1]

I have been flying FS since the 1980's and consider myself a fairly accomplished pilot. I was on short final and had just disengaged the autopilot when the aircraft began a violent left/right osculation There was also lot of turbulence and a strong cross wind. From the sound of the engines I realized I had failed to turn the prop sync off. When I attempted to flip the switch, the violent osculation and turbulence prevented me from positioning the mouse over the switch with enough accuracy to turn the sync off. The aircraft was uncontrollable so I applied full throttle to execute a go around, but the osculation got even worse and I crashed. Later I realized I had also failed to advance the prop leavers to "high rpm" at the start of the approach. These two "pilot errors" proved fatal.

 

I know its only a simulator, but it's been long time since I've crashed. After the flight, I programmed a switch on my joystick using FSUIPC4 to "toggle" the prop sync so I can turn it off even in "turbulence." I have been developing check lists for the B200, but hadn't got around to developing the approach and landing check list yet. The "Normal Procedures" manual calls for leaving the the "prop SYN" on all of the time (page 2 item 3.b.). I understand this is true for newer King Airs but not older ones. The "Normal Procedures" manual also calls for advancing the prop levers to "HIGH RPM" at the beginning of the descent (page 14 Descent a. 4. or page 15 b. 4.). I am accustomed to going "high rpm" in a turboprop when you reach the final approach fix, which I failed to do in this case. Fortunately, it is only a simulator, so I got to live, and learn, and fly again.

 

Regards,

Jim :-)

[abz 1]

Thanks for the info Jim.

[Gregg_Seipp 573]

I had no idea prop sync could cause a problem like that. I have my own set of things I fairly habitually forget about...prop sync is one of them. (I have several aircraft that I can't even figure out how to program the prop sync...amongst other switches). I came to a realization a while ago that FSX is substantially more difficult than real flying. Sure there's that aspect of *fear* with real flying which you mention. But, also, you have peripheral vision, lights, physical switches that you don't have as much of in a sim.

 

Gregg

[Rations 102]

I have only crashed the B747 once in my career after reading and following the training materials, but it was due to simulator error. I set the simulator to half-speed before the top of descent, wanting to eat dinner with my family, but when I came back, I found the aircraft rapidly gaining altitude at 105 KT! I immediately disengaged all automated flight control systems, applied maximum thrust, and pushed the nose down (or perhaps a stall did). Forgetting to reset the simulation rate, the aircraft failed to respond to any of my pitch inputs, and crashed in a nose dive over the speed of sound.

 

I have also experienced two somewhat serious incidents involving the B747. The first involved severe pilot-induced oscillation after initial touchdown. I was de-crabbing immediately before touchdown. After using full rudder, I let my hand rest on the twist axis of the joystick. Suddenly, I thought the effects of continuous full rudder input were those of heavy wind shear, so I made a full opposite aileron input with the yoke. The result was a hard landing and a few laughs afterwards.

 

The second incident was also rather embarrassing. On my last flight of 2012 from Zurich to Vienna, operated by a B747, I decided to use full takeoff thrust. Underestimating its power, I rotated too quickly and experienced a light tail strike at 13 degrees.

 

Thankfully, none of these accidents would have been fatal.

[OzWhitey 3,353]

I made a fatal mistake on my first takeoff (it's not a landing, ok?) with the pmdg 737. I was one of the first to post a successful download of the just-released bird and wanted the first complete flight - a quick island hop starting from fsdt PHNL.

 

I rushed things more than i should have, didn't listen to ATC and hit another plane on the cross runway. Just clipped it - despite my early rotate attempt.

 

That's the only time that's ever happened to me. Very similar to several real accudents e.g. Tenerife.

 

On the flip side - i remember one lanfing. Lds767 approaching san franscisco with ksfo still well off to my left, at night using utx night lighting and following the right fs2 crew checklists when...

 

...Suffered a failure with both engines out almost instantaneously (software bug? I don't know - i don't remember setting the failures).

 

I immediately looked at the dark cockpit with ksfo glowing well in the distance and five seconds later said 'we're going to be in the Hudson' out loud (hey, i'm not from around here - deal with my geography fail).

 

I quickly realised i wasn't going to make the bay so started heading for a nice wide highway. Stoked to see my highway was actually a mllitary airbase (i think).

 

Here we go...and greased the landing.

 

So a takeoff fail and a landing win.

 

Whenever sonething goes wrong i try 100% to make it right - and here's two cases where i learnt a little bit more about aviation and myself.

[KingGhidorah 209]

I crashed one time too....no really, I've crashed thousands upon thousands of times and consider myself quite skillful at it.

[Gregg_Seipp 573]

I often have asked myself if I would have crashed in different circumstances. I wonder how nice the simulator is being. Yesterday FSX ATC cleared me to land on a 2500 ft runway in a Cessna 310 with full tanks. I made it but...hmmm. Real world weather can get really bouncy too...flying along and then suddenly you're 30% banked and then back level again. You think, what was that?

 

Also, from my own experience in RW and from reading accident reports, it's usually not just one thing that results in a crash. It's X and then Y and Z. Distractions, complications. I've had VSIs fail in flight, autopilots fail, a strut depressurize on landing, wx unexpectedly go downhill. It happens way more IRL than it does in the sim.

[ENergy 1]

I had no idea prop sync could cause a problem like that. I have my own set of things I fairly habitually forget about...prop sync is one of them. (I have several aircraft that I can't even figure out how to program the prop sync...amongst other switches). I came to a realization a while ago that FSX is substantially more difficult than real flying. Sure there's that aspect of *fear* with real flying which you mention. But, also, you have peripheral vision, lights, physical switches that you don't have as much of in a sim.

 

Gregg

Hi Gregg,

 

I learned to fly in the 1970's in real aircraft but gave it up because it's way to expensive for a poor man's hobby. Then Microsoft released FS1 and I've been hooked ever since. I agree some things are much easier in a real airplane than the simulator. Lining up with a runway, especially in light winds, is not all that hard in a real airplane, but it the simulator, with its 2D vision, it takes concentration. And yes, peripheral vision makes a world of difference. Flying a simple circuit (upwind, crosswind, downwind, base, and final) around a airport is also easy in.real life. I never have been able to do that by hand with grace and style in FS. I do have a TrackIR, but it's just not the same thing as real peripheral vision.

 

Regards,

Jim :-)

[Rations 102]

Whenever sonething goes wrong i try 100% to make it right - and here's two cases where i learnt a little bit more about aviation and aviation.

I agree. We can not only strive to be realistic when everything is working as it should—we must not neglect the other, non-pretty side of things.

 

Real world weather can get really bouncy too...flying along and then suddenly you're 30% banked and then back level again. You think, what was that?

It's really annoying when FSX winds shift significantly, suddenly, and unrealistically. Usually I try to pass off these occasions as severe wind shear, but even imagination can't help when supposedly accurate real-world winds change instantly from 70 to 20 KT at 2000 ft, and the autopilot screams due to the imminent and inevitable stall.

 

Similar upsets have occurred to my aircraft at both Geneva and London Gatwick. I was prepared for the former by my experiences with the latter, during which the aircraft "peaked" at a 7500 ft/min descent rate before recovering from the stall. The turn to intercept the localizer required a full aileron input for several seconds, as it occurred right when the wind shifted.

[Jarkko 59]

I have crashed many times, but the most memorable was a night flight to LOWI with a C208.

 

I was about to turn to final when I heard that a Boeing in front of me made a go-around. Continued my approach without a problem until ... I hit the wake turbulence of the of the Boeing! It flipped my almost sideways and I ended up in a ditch just short of the runway

[ENergy 1]

It's really annoying when FSX winds shift significantly, suddenly, and unrealistically. Usually I try to pass off these occasions as severe wind shear, but even imagination can't help when supposedly accurate real-world winds change instantly from 70 to 20 KT at 2000 ft, and the autopilot screams due to the imminent and inevitable stall.

 

Owen, the winds aloft smoothing feature of FSUIPC4 alone is worth the cost of the paid version. -- Jim :-)

[Rations 102]

Owen, the winds aloft smoothing feature of FSUIPC4 alone is worth the cost of the paid version. -- Jim :-)

I know, but I'm saving up for (more like climbing out of my $150 FSX debt) a few Aerosoft airports, GEX Europe, and the PMDG B747 V2 and B777 before considering utilities, though I have always wanted FSUIPC and OPUS.

[Yoda967 23]

I have been flying FS since the 1980's and consider myself a fairly accomplished pilot. I was on short final and had just disengaged the autopilot when the aircraft began a violent left/right osculation There was also lot of turbulence and a strong cross wind. From the sound of the engines I realized I had failed to turn the prop sync off. When I attempted to flip the switch, the violent osculation and turbulence prevented me from positioning the mouse over the switch with enough accuracy to turn the sync off. The aircraft was uncontrollable so I applied full throttle to execute a go around, but the osculation got even worse and I crashed. Later I realized I had also failed to advance the prop leavers to "high rpm" at the start of the approach. These two "pilot errors" proved fatal.

 

I know its only a simulator, but it's been long time since I've crashed. After the flight, I programmed a switch on my joystick using FSUIPC4 to "toggle" the prop sync so I can turn it off even in "turbulence." I have been developing check lists for the B200, but hadn't got around to developing the approach and landing check list yet. The "Normal Procedures" manual calls for leaving the the "prop SYN" on all of the time (page 2 item 3.b.). I understand this is true for newer King Airs but not older ones. The "Normal Procedures" manual also calls for advancing the prop levers to "HIGH RPM" at the beginning of the descent (page 14 Descent a. 4. or page 15 b. 4.). I am accustomed to going "high rpm" in a turboprop when you reach the final approach fix, which I failed to do in this case. Fortunately, it is only a simulator, so I got to live, and learn, and fly again.

Jim,

 

The problem seems to me to be more likely a controller issue. I had similar problems with several aircraft, including the B58. Recalibrate your throttle levers, particularly the ones you're using for prop pitch and power levers.

 

Will prop RPM kill you on final? Not necessarily. According to Tom Clements, who wrote the book on King Airs and is arguably the man with more time in King Airs than anybody on the planet, there are a number of satisfactory landing techniques...and among them is a method that involves leaving the props at cruise setting all the way to touchdown, THEN advancing the props to full forward before finally pulling the power levers into reverse.

 

The thing to understand is that as long as your engines are producing enough power to keep you on the glide path, it really doesn't matter how they're configured. What matters is that you're able to quickly generate enough power in an emergency to get your King Air climbing again. Props full forward is the best way to achieve that, so that's why it's recommended...but it's definitely not required. The other reason we need full RPM is to get the engines into reverse. The way the PT6A engines are designed, there's no way to get them into reverse unless the props are in an underspeed condition...that is, the props are actually turning at a lower speed than the prop levers are set for, so the prop blades are on the low pitch stops. The easiest way to achieve that is to push the prop levers fully forward. But, consider that you're not going to need that underspeed condition until you're actually on the ground and wanting to go into reverse. It really doesn't matter what your prop RPM is when you're in the air, as long as it's in the green arc of the N2 gauges.

 

Landing in gusty winds is tricky, but doable. The old standby of adding half the gust speed difference (gust speed - wind speed) works well, and if there are crosswinds, then use the wing low technique to keep yourself lined up on final. Basic landing airspeeds for the B200 should be 121 KIAS down to short final (500 feet AFL or so), then pull back on the power to cross the threshold at about 105 KIAS, and reduce power steadily from there on down to touchdown at about 93 KIAS (OR SLOWER, depending on flap setting). If you're carrying too much speed when you enter the ground effect, you will float a good long ways down the runway trying to get your wheels on the ground.

 

As for pushing props to full RPM at the top of the descent, I advise against that unless you need to get down quick and need the extra drag of the props. You may be descending for a while, and those props are noisy at 2000 RPM. Keep 'em at cruise settings until you really need them at full forward.

[ENergy 1]

Thanks Yoda,

 

What you say makes a lot of sense. It may well be a calibration problem. I used FSUIPC to calibrate the low end of my throttles for reverse. On subsequent landings since that fatal one, I've noticed its exceptionally hard to generate power. I know turbines take a while to spool up, but this is ridiculousness , I have been flying turbo props and fan jets in FSX for years so I know you need to anticipate and make small thrust lever changes, but when you find yourself low and slow and you've been advancing the throttles and its been like 15 seconds and not much is happening, you're dead.

 

Also thanks for the tips on approach, 500 feet, and threshold speeds. I usually try to keep blue line (121 kts) till short final. As for crosswinds, 35 years ago in the real world, I failed my first flight exam for poor crosswind technique. I worked with an instructor for months till I was able to to crab, wing low, and side slip in my sleep. We used to go hunting for airports with lousy crosswinds. We drove one controller nuts always asking for the crosswind runway. But thrown in heavy gusts and maybe even a some wind shear and it can get very interesting very fast. So you try to execute a go around because you prefer to live, but the power just never seems to come, so you die.

 

Enjoy your flights,

Jim :-)